Don't have an account yet? You can create one. As a registered user you have some advantages like theme manager, comments configuration and post comments with your name.
Online
160 guest(s) and 0 member(s)
You are Anonymous user. You can register for free by clicking here
VideoGamesSuck.com :: View topic - Alez from romania
Yeah we're just behind everything cause we're a bunch of fags. Romania sucks, but is it the real truth that the other countries aren't that better, either?
Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:46 pm
berzerker
A Winner is me!
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 2350
mihai_alexandru73 wrote:
is it the real truth that the other countries aren't that better, either?
It is impossible to tell which country is better. How could you make that determination? Only fools would claim that their country is the 'best of the world'. How could they know that Switzerland or Luxembourg or whatever other country they do not know much about is worse?
Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:56 pm
Alez
A Winner is me!
Joined: Apr 09, 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Romania
Yes, i agree, americans are fools.
Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:28 pm
puk
A Winner is me!
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 2140
Location: Southampton, UK
berzerker wrote:
Only fools would claim that their country is the 'best of the world'.
People from 3rd world countries are notorious for doing this
If I had a penny for every time an Israeli claimed that their country was the most beautiful country in the world, or for every time a Pakistani claimed that the Kashmir region (which is experiencing constant conflict) was the most beautiful...well I'd have a lot of pennies.
As a Canadian, we get very offended when people make these remarks b/c we welcome them with open hands, we treat them with the same respect we would anyone else, and we interpret this as meaning they don't like our country.
It's like if I came over to your house for dinner, and then kept talking about how the kitchen in my house is the most beautiful kitchen in the world
Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:38 pm
Kasrkin
Troll
Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 193
berzerker wrote:
After Spain became an EU member, there was no massive influx of poor Spaniards into the richer countries of the EU (Germany more in particular). IIRC that was because freedom of movement of labour was restricted during the first 7 years or so, and after those years had passed there was much less need for Spaniards to find wealth abroad: they could find it back home because the country had become much richer.
In 1986 very few people wanted to emigrate from Spain, there wasn't immigration influx because of that, and not because of border limitation. Who wanted to emigrate from Spain in the 1980s had Canada, Switzerland or Australia with full open doors, they didn't need to wait until Spain entering the EU to flee.
berzerker wrote:
Spain had become richer and and therefore become more attractive for poor people from over the world (particularly Nothern Africa, because of the proximity, and South and Middle America, because of the low language barrier, I guess). That's logical and happens in all rich countries (maybe except relatively isolated countries like Japan).
Immigrants don't go only to the richer places, but to the richer places WITH favorable immigration law. Japan ones are very strict, that's what makes the low immigration rate and not the fact it is isolated. I know someone in Japan and he is asked everyday to show his ID by the police because he hasn't an "asian" face (they enforce the immigration laws).
If you build a country full of gold, jewelry and precious stones, but you place a border defense and an immigration enforcer organization more powerful than the Third Reich ones, I'm sure you won't have too many immigrants.
berzerker wrote:
I am not sure life for Spaniards is really worse now than 10 years ago (but then I am no Spaniard), but it seems to be human nature to remember the good things of the past and forget the bad things. I am sure average income of Spaniards has increased quite substantially over the last 10 years.
Clase alta= Upper class
Clase media= Middle class
Clase baja= Lower class
Pobreza= Poverty
The upper class now is much more numerous than the depicted number in 2008, because they hide their money in other tax haven countries. So the increase in poverty is even much bigger. The social stratification now tends only to very rich or very poor and middle class is being eliminated.
Yeah, the income has increased but we have THE SAME prices that countries like Norway or Sweden, where the wages are ALMOST THREE TIMES BIGGER. And taking into account the rent or buy price of houses, those are the biggest rates in the whole world, because the housing bubble has reached so idiotic and ludicrous levels a 20 years old apartment from a low class neighbourhood in Madrid (country capital) cost as much as a high class full house in most of USA and almost three times as a similar apartment in Germany or France.
Same prices as the countries with the bigger per capita incomes and the bigger housing bubble of the world, while three times less wages... tell me if you think the situation here is good.
Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:01 pm
berzerker
A Winner is me!
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 2350
Some general remarks, since I have no special knowlegde about Spain.
The housing bubble has burst so the problem of high housing prices in general will rectify itself I guess.
Prices of houses in capital cities have increased exceptionally in most countries (housing prices in London, Paris etc are also extremely high indeed), but this is the exception: most other housing prices have increased much less.
A common problem with charts like the one you referred to is that the norms have shifted. Poverty in the 50's is not the same poverty as we know now. Poor people from the 50's might consider the current poor quite rich.
And the comparison is not between current Spanish people on the one hand and current Swedish on the other, but Spanish people now on the one hand and Spanish people back then on the other.
The housing market in Spain has collapsed (more than in most other countries) and we currently have a world wide financial crisis. So the situation may currently be grim, this is not the time for optimism. You already didn't seem like the optimistic type to begin with, so consider the possibility that maybe you are painting the picture a bit too black here.
BTW I sure would not like a society in which everyone who looks differently is questioned by the police all the time.
Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:50 am
berzerker
A Winner is me!
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 2350
puk wrote:
we welcome them with open hands
I am not aware of the meaning of this, is this the same as "with open arms"?
Quote:
we interpret this as meaning they don't like our country.
Then Canadians may be easily offended. This is not what the person saying that his country is beautiful means of course.
Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:14 am
Kasrkin
Troll
Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 193
berzerker wrote:
Prices of houses in capital cities have increased exceptionally in most countries (housing prices in London, Paris etc are also extremely high indeed), but this is the exception: most other housing prices have increased much less.
I forgot to specifically mention that one consequence of this ludicrous bubble is that in non capital cities, the prices are only about 10-20% less. One 35 years old apartment in very bad condition in the most isolated village of the most isolated county here costs as much as a full house with a bit of land in Stuttgart (Germany), one of the world leading cities in technology development.
berzerker wrote:
A common problem with charts like the one you referred to is that the norms have shifted. Poverty in the 50's is not the same poverty as we know now. Poor people from the 50's might consider the current poor quite rich.
They use the same relative values (i.e. income/prices of basic goods).
berzerker wrote:
And the comparison is not between current Spanish people on the one hand and current Swedish on the other, but Spanish people now on the one hand and Spanish people back then on the other.
I was stating that for you to see the current massive difference in Spain between wages and prices, by comparing it with one of the most expensive countries (and which are in the EU too).
berzerker wrote:
The housing market in Spain has collapsed (more than in most other countries) and we currently have a world wide financial crisis. So the situation may currently be grim, this is not the time for optimism. You already didn't seem like the optimistic type to begin with, so consider the possibility that maybe you are painting the picture a bit too black here.
No I'm not, fucking Rolling Stones would have written Paint it Black 2 if they were from Spain. I would state all the arguments but I see you are already confronted to accept this.
berzerker wrote:
BTW I sure would not like a society in which everyone who looks differently is questioned by the police all the time.
Not only I would, but I'm currently studying to be in the immigration department lol.
Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:43 pm
FUCK_YOU_ALL
A Winner is me!
Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 630
Location: Why so serious? Seriously, why? It doesn't make sense.
berzerker wrote:
mihai_alexandru73 wrote:
is it the real truth that the other countries aren't that better, either?
It is impossible to tell which country is better. How could you make that determination?
I dunno, it's almost safe to say, at the very least, that Canada is definitely up there, in the top 3.
It kicks the shit out of the States.
Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:32 am
puk
A Winner is me!
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 2140
Location: Southampton, UK
berzerker wrote:
mihai_alexandru73 wrote:
is it the real truth that the other countries aren't that better, either?
It is impossible to tell which country is better. How could you make that determination? Only fools would claim that their country is the 'best of the world'. How could they know that Switzerland or Luxembourg or whatever other country they do not know much about is worse?
Berzerker, get off your high horse.
It's a perfectly simple question Mihai asked, and as FUCK_YOU_ALL made abundantly clear, it's a simple determination to make.
Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 6:49 am
berzerker
A Winner is me!
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 2350
puk wrote:
It's a perfectly simple question Mihai asked, and as FUCK_YOU_ALL made abundantly clear, it's a simple determination to make.
Please elaborate, or was it meant sarcastically?
FYA's statement did not seem to make any sense to me (as usual, I may add): how can you be sure Canada is better than Norway, Switzerland and Finland, to name three countries at random? Still this is a necessary precondition for his claim that Canada is in the top three.
And I do not get what is wrong with my reply to Mihai (apparently neither did you the first time you replied; this is the second time).
Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:11 am
puk
A Winner is me!
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 2140
Location: Southampton, UK
mihai_alexandru73 wrote:
Yeah we're just behind everything cause we're a bunch of fags.
obviously he's talking tongue in cheek. They aren't a culture of homosexuals
mihai_alexandru73 wrote:
Romania sucks, but is it the real truth that the other countries aren't that better, either?
We're not exactly splitting hairs here, Romania is a 3rd world country that was devestated by the break up of the Soviet Union. He's just asking if other countries are just as bad.
I don't understand what's confusing you
Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:29 am
berzerker
A Winner is me!
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 2350
puk wrote:
We're not exactly splitting hairs here, Romania is a 3rd world country that was devestated by the break up of the Soviet Union.
By the communist rule, I would think.
Quote:
He's just asking if other countries are just as bad.
At which point I replied, basically, that no one could tell because no one knows all other countries. You would have to know at least how bad the situation in Romenia is and in your own country, otherwise you could not possibly compare, could you?
Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 10:38 am
puk
A Winner is me!
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 2140
Location: Southampton, UK
berzerker wrote:
At which point I replied, basically, that no one could tell because no one knows all other countries. You would have to know at least how bad the situation in Romenia is and in your own country, otherwise you could not possibly compare, could you?
You could make an educated guess, or make a constructive comment
For example, Azerbaijan has a substantial amount of oil, so it has helped their recovery there. Although, there are a lot of oligarchs there, so they are siphoning of the country's money. Also, there is some political instability as the president wants to become president for life. And the cops tend to take matters into their own hads, so for example, when arresting a known pedafile, it's not uncommon to 'accidentally' shoot him or her.
According to that article, Moldova is the hardest hit, then Ukraine, then Georgia
Also, I know that Latvia has a huge problem with crime.
Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 12:35 pm
berzerker
A Winner is me!
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 2350
So then how to tell if the situation in Romenia is worse than in Azerbaijan or Georgia? The Gross Domestic Product seems not very interesting. If the top 5% of a country double their income and the remainder decrease by 5% and all other factors remain unchanged, the GDP may well increase, yet the vast majority would think the situation in their country has deteriorated.
You mention crime as a factor too. If in Latvia the GDP doubles but crime doubles too, I wonder if the Latvians consider the new situation an improvement over the past. The use of statistics on crime seems to be of very limited use anyway (only reported crime is contained in the figures).
Maybe you could argue that, in a comparison between the US on the one hand and Western European countries on the other, poor people are better off in Western Europe (generally better social system) and rich people are better off in the US (more opportunities to buy better education / healthcare, and they pay much less taxes), but there are quite a few differences between Western European countries. In addition this comparison ignores the greater part of the world (Japan, Australia, Eastern Europe, Canada, etc).
Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 1:06 pm
puk
A Winner is me!
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 2140
Location: Southampton, UK
I'd rather u argued in the way you just did, than getting into semantics.
It's like if you said your friend/son/brother/ was fat, and then went on and on about how no one can be just 'fat', and that how does one go about proving that someone is entirely made up of fat...
Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 1:16 pm
berzerker
A Winner is me!
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 2350
puk wrote:
I'd rather u argued in the way you just did, than getting into semantics.
It's like if you said your friend/son/brother/ was fat, and then went on and on about how no one can be just 'fat', and that how does one go about proving that someone is entirely made up of fat...
Maybe I am mistaken but I thought it was about a *comparison* between countries. And I think it is impossible to compare properly, that's the message I do not seem to get across. But let's forget it, this is leading nowhere.
Last edited by berzerker on Mon May 11, 2009 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 1:25 pm
Kasrkin
Troll
Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 193
berzerker wrote:
So then how to tell if the situation in Romenia is worse than in Azerbaijan or Georgia?
Statistics are largely manipulated by every authority involved. Years ago was one called "Human Development Index" that not only measures the income or the GDP, but the educational system, the standard of living and so on. Back then it was a good measure of the social condition but now it's heavy manipulated by the goverments (specially the US) to not receive negative opinions in the UN.
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 5:54 am
berzerker
A Winner is me!
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 2350
Kasrkin wrote:
Years ago was one called "Human Development Index" that not only measures the income or the GDP, but the educational system, the standard of living and so on. Back then it was a good measure of the social condition but now it's heavy manipulated by the goverments (specially the US) to not receive negative opinions in the UN.
At least they were in based on 2006 data, they will probably be down a bit now they are virtually bankrupt.
Romania is at no 62. I looked this up for our Romanian friends.
And these statistics may well be manipulated indeed, but this would still seem a bit more useful than the GDP. Is it really a coincidence that the US are only the smallest possible margin ahead of Spain, yet the US is in the top group and Spain is not? Nonetheless this still looks pretty bad for the US, taken the fact that they are supposed to be the richest country on earth.
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:58 am
puk
A Winner is me!
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 2140
Location: Southampton, UK
There are, obviously, a lot of reasons why the US is not number 1 (even though they are the richest country), but in my opinion, it's b/c the US spends much more (on the military) then it can afford to.
Ron Paul touched on this, when he mentioned that the US was growing more due to borrowing than to actual output.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 5 of 10Goto page Previous1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10Next
