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you just need to get a faster gfx card, because cpu will not make a huge difference for another year or so.
How do you knnow what future games will require? Usually most games benefit more from a better video card than from a better CPU yes, but there are always exceptions (GTA4 for example).
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:47 pm
Kasrkin
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Posts: 193
I purchased a 8800GTS/320 Mb in summer 2007, 10 days later nvidia released the first 65 nm GPUs (8800GT) at almost half the price offering double power... it really pissed me off. I decided then I would never spend more than 180 € on a graphic card (~ $240).
berzerker wrote:
but there are always exceptions (GTA4 for example).
That's because GTA4 is an intentionaly bad port, to punish pc gamers for not buying a XBOX360 or a PS3 (now they haven't enough with the more than six months of delay) and force people to next time buy one of these consoles before waiting 8 months to get another shitty port.
It's one of the most mobster tactics ever seen in the videogame industry, it isn't only that they steal pc games to be console-only (although this isn't the case, GTA series have been always console made, but they always ported it to pc very well) it's that they release broken games (Bully and GTA 4) to cause the people into thinking the consoles are the most reliable way to play them.
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:44 am
captnPugwash_halabalobale
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yeah i have the 8800gt alpha dog edition and bfg 8800gtx
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:06 am
berzerker
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Kasrkin wrote:
That's because GTA4 is an intentionaly bad port, to punish pc gamers for not buying a XBOX360 or a PS3 (now they haven't enough with the more than six months of delay) and force people to next time buy one of these consoles before waiting 8 months to get another shitty port.
It's one of the most mobster tactics ever seen in the videogame industry, it isn't only that they steal pc games to be console-only (although this isn't the case, GTA series have been always console made, but they always ported it to pc very well) it's that they release broken games (Bully and GTA 4) to cause the people into thinking the consoles are the most reliable way to play them.
GTA is originally a PC series, only from GTA3 it became focussed on consoles (PS2).
They have a 6+ months delay before porting to the PC, why would they would need to implement an additional 'punishment'? Besides, it would seem unimaginable that a developer makes a game bad on purpose. If they had such a scheme, then why would they go through all the trouble of porting the game at all and not simply not release on the PC?
But then, if you are into conspiracy theories, everything becomes imaginable I guess.
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:52 am
captnPugwash_halabalobale
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berzerker wrote:
How do you knnow what future games will require? Usually most games benefit more from a better video card than from a better CPU yes, but there are always exceptions (GTA4 for example).
papapaaaaaa this calls for a rare occasion, where i have to shine my wisdom sparingly, hope its not too bright for you to handle, so do keep a pair of shades nearby. this rare occasion can be compared to a famous comet revisiting our overpopulated planet.
friends, comrades, peasants and all you insignificant types, we are now going to see hybrid cpus where the gpu and cpu will be on the same chip. intel has already planned to have this next year starting with Westmere. Traditionally we use gpu because of the special nature of hardware that supports parallel floating point operations. graphics and simulations generally use a lot of floating point calculations. the cpu also can do parallel fp ops, but thread creation is very costly since cpu threads are heavyweight. gpu threads on the other hand are lightweight and donot incur overhead cost even when spanning 1000000's of threads in one shot. its due to this extreme parallel processing capability you see all the great graphics in games. physical simulations are similar because they can be vectorized in parallel as well.
So what is going to happen is that you end up back in the day like in the 8086 pc xt which had a cpu and floating point math co processor, lol! Once the gpu is totally integrated, then the role of the gpu will become blurred and it will just be a another floating pt hardware that can be used for anything. already openCL is a step in that direction. Take a look a little more fwd and see the impact. you wouldint have bandwidth limitations or latency problems offloading the code and textures from the main memory on to the bus to gpu. you could load tons of textures depending just on how much gigs of ram you have in your main memory. id tec5 engine is a step in that direction. you can write graphics apps in software rendering mode and skip openGL or directX, because the gpu and cpu are on the same chip and not some special dedicated hardware!! ( remember unreals amazing software renderer ).
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:30 am
puk
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Kasrkin wrote:
...theaters were losing the battle against the TV... and the movie industry invented that trick to fuck up the TV display of their films (2.35 to 1.33) to force people into watching them on the theater.
Cool, I never knew that. I'll try to incorporate that into my next pick up line =)
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:33 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
But then, if you are into conspiracy theories, everything becomes imaginable I guess.
Ya I'm with Berzerker on this one. I don't think Rockstar would do that, surely a few people would resign and go public. However, I do think it has occoured naturally, for example M$ pressed them to release super early so they would spend less on PC games, and more on their consolized POS
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:38 am
Kasrkin
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Posts: 193
berzerker wrote:
GTA is originally a PC series, only from GTA3 it became focussed on consoles (PS2).
GTA 1 came first in Play Station 1, plus his controls were made for the PS1 gamepad and not for keyboard+mouse, among other consolized features.
berzerker wrote:
They have a 6+ months delay before porting to the PC, why would they would need to implement an additional 'punishment'?
To force people even more into buying their fucking consoles.
berzerker wrote:
Besides, it would seem unimaginable that a developer makes a game bad on purpose. If they had such a scheme, then why would they go through all the trouble of porting the game at all and not simply not release on the PC?
Why is it "unimaginable" to you? Look at what terms they use:
Quote:
Peter Zetterberg: On a global scale the Windows Vista business is as important as our Xbox 360 business. But in Germany for example, we want more gamers to buy our Xbox 360. If we launch a game that is on 360 and PC simultaneously, we basically shoot ourselves in the foot by allowing the German market to choose to play the PC version – because they are more likely to buy that than spend their money on the Xbox 360.
The Microsoft Game Studios business development manager for Europe compares giving the people the choice of buying in pc or in XBOX "shooting themselves in the foot".
And, why they release a broken and lazy port rather than not releasing it at all? Because paying $50 and getting shit, hurts more than not paying and getting nothing. Besides, they know there are people who isn't gonna buy a fucking console even on death threat or people who want to have it on several plataforms (collector fetish fucktards with too much money) and by the way they sell certain amount of copies only for the "GTA" title, they would sell them even if they put a dog shit in a game case.
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:17 pm
captnPugwash_halabalobale
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i agree with kaskarin on this one. i found gta 4 to be consolized. i only played it for 3mins last month and never went back. to give you an example the car steering is not at all keyboard friendly. i think they wanted you to have a microsoft wheel or something to control it. and to top it the live shit!! you need to have a live account to save it. but you can just use your exising hotmail account. you need to have another just for games account!!
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:27 pm
berzerker
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Kasrkin wrote:
GTA 1 came first in Play Station 1, plus his controls were made for the PS1 gamepad and not for keyboard+mouse, among other consolized features.
The original Grand Theft Auto was developed in DOS, and then later ported to Microsoft Windows (using SciTech MGL), Sony PlayStation, and Game Boy Color. The Game Boy Color version was technologically unabridged, which was quite a technical achievement due to the sheer size of the cities, converted tile-for-tile from the PC original, making them many times larger than most Game Boy Color game worlds were because of the handheld's limited hardware. To cater for the target younger generation, however, the game was heavily censored, with gore and swearing removed.
The PC version comes in several different executables for DOS and MS-Windows, which use single set of data files (except for the 8-bit DOS version which uses different but similar graphics)
Grand Theft Auto was to be released on the Sega Saturn, but due to the console's rapid decline in popularity before development was finished, the project was halted and the game was never released. After the PlayStation's successful release, development began on a port for the Nintendo 64, Grand Theft Auto 64, rumored to have graphical enhancements and new missions, but cancelled without ever having a public appearance.
So it was not developed for a console first.
Quote:
The Microsoft Game Studios business development manager for Europe compares giving the people the choice of buying in pc or in XBOX "shooting themselves in the foot".
Yeah, he explained why they released it for the consoles first, no surprise there (albeit completely silly and stupid, this is old news). He did not say that they deliberately screwed up GTA4. They didn't decide to make GTA4 PC more expensive than GTA4 console, not to release it at all, to make it Vista-only or whatever, only to delay the PC port a bit.
Quote:
And, why they release a broken and lazy port rather than not releasing it at all? Because paying $50 and getting shit, hurts more than not paying and getting nothing. Besides, they know there are people who isn't gonna buy a fucking console even on death threat or people who want to have it on several plataforms (collector fetish fucktards with too much money) and by the way they sell certain amount of copies only for the "GTA" title, they would sell them even if they put a dog shit in a game case.
Then why didn't they develop it properly and just make it more expensive? It would not have damaged their name as much and may have given them more profit too.
Like I said, if you are into conspiracy stuff you can explain everything, but that does not necessarily make it true.
Last edited by berzerker on Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:48 pm, edited 5 times in total
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:32 pm
berzerker
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captnPugwash_halabalobale wrote:
i agree with kaskarin on this one. i found gta 4 to be consolized. i only played it for 3mins last month and never went back. to give you an example the car steering is not at all keyboard friendly. i think they wanted you to have a microsoft wheel or something to control it. and to top it the live shit!! you need to have a live account to save it. but you can just use your exising hotmail account. you need to have another just for games account!!
We all agree they fucked it up completely, but the question if whether they did so deliberately. They probably just ported it in accordance with M$ recommendations (therefore this idiotic live account requirement and only support for x360 controllers) without giving it more thought. If they were to do it the same next time then I might consider agreeing with you, but for now it seems it is simply a fucked up port like we had so many in the past. Who remembers the Final Fantasy VII port?
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:51 pm
captnPugwash_halabalobale
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gaming is purely a business now. top level managers set unrealistic timeframes and the programmers/artists often suffer. often this manager is not a gamer, so he may think from a business pt of view it is brilliant, but in reality its a shit idea, because he has no clue what gaming is. this is a person who has no artistic sense or vision. they come with a mission to climb up the lader or to maintain current profit margins. for example let us go back to the ms live account. its a great idea business wise, cause you centralize your player activity and use that central hub to control the game in various way. so every1 comes to your company. but from a gamers pt of view its a nightmare. for the first time in my life i had to connect to the net to save a game in my hdd! so you see its pure business and only business. and in business they will do anything to get profit.
so deliberate or not doesnt really matter at all, its all abt the business. utlimately its how your business process are defined that give character to your company and it is the same for the game industry too.
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:24 pm
puk
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captnPugwash_halabalobale wrote:
gaming is purely a business now. top level managers set unrealistic timeframes and the programmers/artists often suffer.
I wonder if this inherent to capitalism in general. For example, you get a sector of the economy which is highly profitable, se people make sound decisions, but then the banking institutions get wind of this, and hike up their rates, and the margin of profits diminish.
I mean, what are the chances that we'll see another Jordan Mechner
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:45 pm
berzerker
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puk wrote:
I wonder if this inherent to capitalism in general. For example, you get a sector of the economy which is highly profitable, se people make sound decisions, but then the banking institutions get wind of this, and hike up their rates, and the margin of profits diminish.
I do not get this. If a sector is highly profitable, then that would somehow cause people to make sound decisions? And banks have higher rates for highly profitable business sectors? Why would this highly profitable sector need banks so deperately anyway?
Quote:
I mean, what are the chances that we'll see another Jordan Mechner
New starting developers still exist, World of Goo was developed by 2 or 3 persons.
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:19 pm
Pogma9
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If you guys go to a mainstream PC forum and pop into the gaming section, you'll find that most people don't seem to know or care about the console plague that's almost ruined PC gaming{for enthusiasts}.
There seem to be more games coming out lately{or maybe I'm just imagining it}, but most of them are shit.....ie, they've been dumbed down and ruined by the constraints of being multi-platform.
I was all set to buy a new Quadcore+5870 2gig system later this year, but not if there aren't any decent and demanding games.
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:20 pm
Pogma9
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captnPugwash_halabalobale wrote:
friends, comrades, peasants and all you insignificant types, we are now going to see hybrid cpus where the gpu and cpu will be on the same chip.
How will they cool these dual chips?
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:06 am
captnPugwash_halabalobale
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Pogma9 wrote:
captnPugwash_halabalobale wrote:
friends, comrades, peasants and all you insignificant types, we are now going to see hybrid cpus where the gpu and cpu will be on the same chip.
How will they cool these dual chips?
thats a no brainer really, just use any of the methods below
1. by traditional handwoven paper fans made of bamboo shoots
2. by the cpu fan
3. by periodically throwing in a couple of ice cubes
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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:08 am
captnPugwash_halabalobale
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btw is not a dual chip, its an single cpu chip with different processing units. cpu+gpu+memory controller. so you wont need a north bridge anymore.
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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:11 am
berzerker
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Pogma9 wrote:
How will they cool these dual chips?
Cooling won't be a big problem because this will not produce high performance video for some time to come.
"The GPU itself will be a die-shrunk version of the company's GMA X4500 series of products", according to Arstechnica and the lack of dedicated video memory may be quite a set back in comparison to current video cards.
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:42 am
Pogma9
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berzerker wrote:
Pogma9 wrote:
How will they cool these dual chips?
Cooling won't be a big problem because this will not produce high performance video for some time to come.
".
Yeah....it sounds like news for the HTPC crowd, but for gamers it's close to worthless info, but seeing as though Pugwash promoted it, that's no surprise.
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my wisdom sparingly, hope its not too bright for you to handle, so do keep a pair of shades nearby. this rare occasion can be compared to a famous comet revisiting our overpopulated planet.
