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VideoGamesSuck.com :: View topic - Germany wants to ban shooters
See here for those who can read German (otherwise Google Translate will help). Basically the ministers of home affairs of the states that make up the German Federation want to ban all games that involves shooting at people. The reason is that it incites violence and most idiots that went on a shooting spree at school played such games.
Apparently they forget that probably *anyone* at those schools play those games, yet they do not all kill each other.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:00 am
puk
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I kinda approve of this, but it's a lost cause unless they can ban movies as well. Which I think they should (american movies at least). *Dodges Suislides attacks* Not because the movies are bad themselves, but people end up being educated by movies/games/tv shows
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:24 am
mihai_alexandru73
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Yea I agree with puk. If they want to educate people to be peaceful, then ban all violence from games, movies, tv shows and also ban every war Germany is in or will be.
I think gaming does little to encourage violence in real life. Of course I'd like to have my own Adolf Hitler in Sims 3 and murder everyone there, but in reality I wouldn't even hurt a mosquito. I think the mind differentiates between the world of videogames and the world that we call "real life".
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:12 am
Alez
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This reminds me of a joke by Bill Hicks concerning "what causes sexual thought?". As in what to censor and shit like that. And Bill said it quite simply "having a dick".
The same with violence. What causes violence? Nothing, we're born that way. Just like some are smarter than others, some are more violent than others.
You don't play violent games unless YOU WANT TO. That's something that needs to be fully understood. YOU HAVE THE NEED to do that shit. So you might even say that killing a million nazis in hundreds of WW2 shooters let you release some of your anger you couldn't otherwise.
Do girls play manhunt? Do they play GTA? Not really, because they do not have a need for violence. They play Sims and WoW (in which the killing is actually just "swing a plastic thing near a plastic looking thing untill the math says you had enough numbers to make it disappear").
People are violent by nature. Just like people have a need to love, they have a need to hate. It's up to every individual to have a balance between all the instincts we have from when we were still in caves. Some people just can and some can't.
You wanna fix people from killing kids in school? STOP MAKING REAL THINGS THAT KILL FUCKING AVAILABLE TO ANYONE.
I like the idea of trying to educate people to stop being assholes or killers but banning random things is not the way to educate that. You're just ignoring the issues and saying "I CAN'T HEAR YOU PROBLEM, I AM BANNING YOU!!".
Germany fail, try to make some "education camps" instead, i bet that would take care of the problem.
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:33 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
I kinda approve of this, but it's a lost cause unless they can ban movies as well. Which I think they should (american movies at least). *Dodges Suislides attacks* Not because the movies are bad themselves, but people end up being educated by movies/games/tv shows
I would think (but have nothing to back that up) that historically we have been in the least violent society that may ever have existed, that is in the western world except the US probably. If that is the case, I really doubt this has changed during the last, say, 10 years (when videogames became more mainstream) and if it has, whether this is attributable to videogames.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:23 pm
mihai_alexandru73
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Alez wrote:
This reminds me of a joke by Bill Hicks concerning "what causes sexual thought?". As in what to censor and shit like that. And Bill said it quite simply "having a dick".
The same with violence. What causes violence? Nothing, we're born that way. Just like some are smarter than others, some are more violent than others.
You don't play violent games unless YOU WANT TO. That's something that needs to be fully understood. YOU HAVE THE NEED to do that shit. So you might even say that killing a million nazis in hundreds of WW2 shooters let you release some of your anger you couldn't otherwise.
Do girls play manhunt? Do they play GTA? Not really, because they do not have a need for violence. They play Sims and WoW (in which the killing is actually just "swing a plastic thing near a plastic looking thing untill the math says you had enough numbers to make it disappear").
People are violent by nature. Just like people have a need to love, they have a need to hate. It's up to every individual to have a balance between all the instincts we have from when we were still in caves. Some people just can and some can't.
You wanna fix people from killing kids in school? STOP MAKING REAL THINGS THAT KILL FUCKING AVAILABLE TO ANYONE.
I like the idea of trying to educate people to stop being assholes or killers but banning random things is not the way to educate that. You're just ignoring the issues and saying "I CAN'T HEAR YOU PROBLEM, I AM BANNING YOU!!".
Germany fail, try to make some "education camps" instead, i bet that would take care of the problem.
I actually think videogames may reduce violence in real life a little, cause it's true that people may have negative emotions trapped in them, and killing those nazis in the games may release those emotions without actually doing any harm. Stop making wars, stop killing animals for food (yea Alez, I'm a gay vegi eater I know) Solve real life violence, not the virtual one. At least that's my opinion.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:48 pm
Alez
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I can understand how the stopping of wars might work. Everyone is too busy raiding in WOW to go to work (even if their jobs are to lead an army of soldiers in real life).
But stopping the need to eat meat could not be solved that way.
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:05 pm
mihai_alexandru73
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I think it is kind of gay for governments to ban video game violence. I saw Ron Paul's office in a documentary and he had a thing on his desk with these words on it: "Don't steal, the US Government doesn't like competition". In this case we've got "Don't be violent, ... etc.
Actually it may be even true what I said earlier, that video game violence lowers real life violence, so maybe the governments of the world actually want more violence in real life by lowering the violence in the virtual world. I think I just invented a new conspiracy theory.
It may actually be true that video games lower real life violence, just like if you masturbate, the need for real sex will lower. A very good example lol.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:41 pm
Alez
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Yeah, masturbation makes me not wanna have sex for...20 minutes. It's a very poor medicine.
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:47 pm
mihai_alexandru73
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I still believe my example was good. Say you didn't have sex for a week. The sexual tension has built up, and you can release it by doing "fake" sex, by masturbating. Same with video game violence. You release the negative emotions with a "fake" activity.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:55 pm
Alez
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A week? I can't last half a day without either sex or a wank. You have the mind of a jedi...or you're a woman.
Edit: Oh and yes, 99.9% of the times it's a wank
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:44 pm
Pogma9
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Alez wrote:
A week? I can't last half a day without either sex or a wank. You have the mind of a jedi...or you're a woman.
Edit: Oh and yes, 99.9% of the times it's a wank
TOO MUCH INFORMATION LOLOLOLOL
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:45 pm
Pogma9
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Do we also ban cars because people commit crimes in them?
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:17 am
puk
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mihai_alexandru73 wrote:
I think the mind differentiates between the world of videogames and the world that we call "real life".
Well media reinforces our beliefs, I think that watching/playing something 20 hours a week is bound to change the way you act
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:22 am
puk
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Alez wrote:
People are violent by nature. Just like people have a need to love, they have a need to hate.
I don't agree with that first part. I think a lot of things in our society make us [men] more aggressive like alcohol, violent media, male dominated world, prevailing secular beliefs.
Alez wrote:
I like the idea of trying to educate people to stop being assholes or killers but banning random things is not the way to educate that.
Again, I think the parents should be responsible for banning such things, and not the state, but with these massive corporations, parents feel like they are losing control over even their own families
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:24 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
...historically we have been in the least violent society...If that is the case, I really doubt this has changed during the last, say, 10 years (when videogames became more mainstream) and if it has, whether this is attributable to videogames.
Things that are correlated need not be dependent.
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:26 am
puk
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Pogma9 wrote:
Do we also ban cars because people commit crimes in them?
No, but we reduce the speed limit, put more cops out with breathalizers, increase luxury tax on cars, promote a public transportation system...
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:49 am
Alez
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puk wrote:
Alez wrote:
People are violent by nature. Just like people have a need to love, they have a need to hate.
I don't agree with that first part. I think a lot of things in our society make us [men] more aggressive like alcohol, violent media, male dominated world, prevailing secular beliefs.
Well you say things make us violent, i say WE make violent things because that's what we want.
Remember the times when people were getting killed in arenas? There were no rambo movies, no gta games and yet people cheered while other people got stabbed to death.
So ehm...imagine it like we're all in Sims. We have these bars we need to fill up in order to feel better. One is something like love, another security and among others, the need for violence or physical activities even if they are virtual. Some people fill up their bars faster and some harder.
Also, you just told that Kranius asshole that you wanna punch people when someone mentions wow. That was a violent answer and you could have easily said something else. But it felt good saying it, it's just important to balance that need and know when to stop. Violence is a part of us, which CAN be influenced by other but not eliminated, it depends on the person. It's a primal instinct. Try to help people control it, don't ban the means in which they satisfy that need on virtual people.
I think the word "violence" is not the best choice. I mean a need to...compete in non intellectual maners or the need to have someone or something to hate so you balance the love part. Like christians LOVE their god and fellow believers yet anyone who doesn't believe in their fairy tale is the FUCKING ANTICHRIST.
Edit: The short version is that some people will FUCKING SNAP no matter what. So you need better control of guns and other means with which they could hurt those around them. Like Chris Rock said :whatever happened to just crazy?. People analize everything nowadays but in the end some people are just...crazy.
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:37 am
mihai_alexandru73
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Alez wrote:
A week? I can't last half a day without either sex or a wank. You have the mind of a jedi...or you're a woman.
Edit: Oh and yes, 99.9% of the times it's a wank
Sorry dude I'm no jedi... once a day is OK for me though. lol
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:32 am
Kokobuttah
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Quote:
Alez & Puk - "Germany fail, try to make some "education camps" instead, i bet that would take care of the problem." I think the parents should be responsible for banning
... Parents + Schools, in very vague terms, are in society to prepare you for the future. So, educating would be the best idea. Shielding people from things will only make them not know how to react when they confront it. I personally feel smarter people are far more accepting to things than stupid people are because smarter people will try to understand or attribute some bullshit reason to something they don't know while stupid people resist.
The best way to solve issues like this is to teach people to broaden their criteria. For example, if you are a manager working at large company and you have two employees one who has a degree and one who doesn't and has moved up the ranks. Lets say the idiot produces more than the college boy, but the college boy gets paid more. The idiots going to be angry and you tell him "ehhh yeah but the thing is he spent a lot of money on college, so he's really not making more than you because he has to pay of his loans" (a somewhat acceptable excuse)
Lets say the idiot gets paid more and the college boy is angry. You tell the college boy "we get paid by how much we produce around here and right now he is making more than you I am sure if you tried as hard as he did you could make just as much or even more PLUS you have a college degree you probably know something he doesn't"
Quote:
Mihai_alexandru73 I actually think videogames may reduce violence in real life a little, cause it's true that people may have negative emotions trapped in them, and killing those nazis in the games may release those emotions without actually doing any harm.
.... I believe the argument stems from the "Foot-in-the-door" phenomenon. If you don't know, foot-in-the-door is what salemens and fairgrounds people use to snare you into their traps. If you give in the first time (stick your foot in the door), you are far more likely to do it again the next time (or go through the door).
Like at the fair when one of the people let you shoot a basketball a couple times on the hoop (that's reduced in diameter) just so you gain your confidence AND so they can put the ball in your hand. Now that you're there you don't really want to say "No, get the fuck out of my face" so that makes you more willing. So, when you actually do stuff like go and rage on a tree with an axe or even just yell when you are angry, you are actually training yourself to do loose tension that way, so you end up more forming a habit. In this case, pretending to shoot someone is setting someone on a path to possibly trying a gun and then actually shooting someone. (gay I know)
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