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Why do people drink (alcohol)? It is expensive (in Western Europe, anyway, partly because it is heavily taxed), you can easily do without (unlike food), there is no natural urge (unlike sex), and what benefit does it offer? Maybe puk can shed some light on this?
This goes even more for smoking, it goes beyond me why anyone would even consider starting smoking.
Any thoughts / conspiracy theories?
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:36 am
puk
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it makes things more fun.
That's about as simple as I can make it.
If you want more complicated: If you drink enough, it becomes a part of your personality to the point where you can't function without it.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:50 am
Alez
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What benefit does alcohol offer?
Seriously, what kinda shitty question is that? That sounds like something a non-cool person might say. Choose your poison :Fag, virgin, woman, vegi eater, religious nut, someone who's never been in a bar or at a party.
I'm not gonna explain why alcohol kicks ass BUT i do agree with the smoking. I don't know how shit is where you are but here in my city people smoke like crazy.
I understand the benefit but the downside is way too big. The ratio of good it does compared to the bad it does is fucked up. Hell, it makes more sense to do drugs than to smoke cigarettes. Yeah those fuck you up but they also give have a big "good" effect.
Also, i guess about 50% of smokers stared young because they wanted to look cool. I tried them too, i just didn't get addicted, saw no point.
But the really annoying piece of shit is the state that lets you BUY them. I assume you also have warnings and pictures of fried lungs and shit.
So watch out it KILLS YOU, it kills THOSE AROUND YOU...but if you pay it's ok.
Think about it, even if the state lets someone slowly kill himself, why the fuck does it let him cause harm to those around him? They can cause harm to anyone yet the state does not protect its own people. Either cut the shit with the "it KILLS" labels or fucking stop selling it.
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:52 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
it makes things more fun.
That's about as simple as I can make it.
If you want more complicated: If you drink enough, it becomes a part of your personality to the point where you can't function without it.
This last bit does not sound like fun at all, so drinking "enough" would seem equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:01 am
berzerker
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Alez wrote:
Seriously, what kinda shitty question is that? That sounds like something a non-cool person might say. Choose your poison :Fag, virgin, woman, vegi eater, religious nut, someone who's never been in a bar or at a party.
I'd pick the vegi eater then. "Never been in a bar" would seem like begging the question; why would anyone who doesn't drink visit a bar in the first place?
Quote:
But the really annoying piece of shit is the state that lets you BUY them. I assume you also have warnings and pictures of fried lungs and shit.
So watch out it KILLS YOU, it kills THOSE AROUND YOU...but if you pay it's ok.
Think about it, even if the state lets someone slowly kill himself, why the fuck does it let him cause harm to those around him? They can cause harm to anyone yet the state does not protect its own people. Either cut the shit with the "it KILLS" labels or fucking stop selling it.
Banning it would create the problems we have with drugs now. I would turn it around and legalize and regulate drugs rather than extending the mistakes we made there to the tobacco front.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:08 am
Alez
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What else you could do in a bar besides drink? Well you could hang out with friends and/or try to pick up chicks. But without enough alcohol through your veins you're not gonna have as much fun as the rest. I'm not saying to get drunk, that's too much for casual nights out. But a few beers or something to have a nice little buzz and make shit seem less serious and make conversations easier.
About the smoking, i don't really buy the "ohh well if we make it illegal then we won't stop it" kinda shit. Apparently there's crime everywhere, people killing and no country managed to stop it. Should they just make killing people legal so you could pay taxes why you're killing your neighbours?
I'd say make it illegal, and it will die down. Marijuana is a million times better than nicotine. If they're both illegal might as well go for the best one with the least side effects. As far as i know, marijuana doesn't give you cancer or not as bad, i'm not sure.
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:47 am
puk
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Alez wrote:
I don't know how shit is where you are but here in my city people smoke like crazy.
I understand the benefit but the downside is way too big.
Ya, I don't understand the appeal of smoking. I've never been big on caffein or nicoteen, or any drugs for that matter, alcohol is the only one.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:50 am
puk
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Alez wrote:
But the really annoying piece of shit is the state that lets you BUY them.
I don't think the state should tell me what I can and can't buy, that's the parents role.
Alez wrote:
Think about it, even if the state lets someone slowly kill himself, why the fuck does it let him cause harm to those around him?
This I agree with, and it's called 'nuisance'. So if someone causes a nuisance to me which makes it harder for me to live my day to day life, they should compensate me. In other words, I should be able to sue them for blowing smoke in my direction.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:52 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
puk wrote:
it makes things more fun.
That's about as simple as I can make it.
If you want more complicated: If you drink enough, it becomes a part of your personality to the point where you can't function without it.
This last bit does not sound like fun at all, so drinking "enough" would seem equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot.
You drink alcohol b/c of the society we live in (media, western culture, rap...) then u just assume it's the only way to live.
It's also an escape from reality when your wife/mother/girlfriend/gay lover is getting on your case
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:53 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
...why would anyone who doesn't drink visit a bar in the first place?
I think you ask these questions just to piss me off.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:56 am
puk
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Alez contrast smoking vs alcohol in Canada. Both are legal, but there has been a major campaign against cigarettes here so they've made them more expensive, they have warnings on them all, and most places are non smoking now, so no one smokes in Canada any more.
Alcohol, on the other hand, has had no such campaing against it (Mothers Against Drunk Driving is losing the battle) so people drink like crazy.
I think it's more affective to encourage people not to drink/smoke as opposed to ordering them not to.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:03 am
Alez
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Actually i thing the state HAS to tell me what i can and cannot buy. I wanna know when i buy my food that it's not fucking poison. Quality control is a must.
But the thing with cigars is that no matter how you look at it, they don't work. It's just that the tobaco companies have shit loads of money to pay off politicians. I guess you could call me a conspiracy nut but i see no other logical conclusion.
Case A : The state doesn't tell me what to do. Its not my parents so it lets shit slide. Gives us shit that can kill us, cigarettes and alcohol (which can lead to drunk driving or other death situations) BUT still makes heroin and crack illegal. Especially marijuana, even though i don't smoke it, makes no sense to have it illegal because it's not worse that smokes or alcohol.
Case B: It makes bad things for you illegal, that's why drugs are illegal and shit like that. YET it gives us something that not only damages the user but ALSO those around. For fuck sake, heroin does less damage to those around because you shoot it in your vein, nobody gets a dose.
OHHH BUT WAIT, it says on the package "IT WILL KILL YOU" so that makes it alright to sell. Then why not say that for crack and shit? Makes no sense.
So how the fuck are cigarettes legal?
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:08 am
Alez
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puk wrote:
I think it's more affective to encourage people not to drink/smoke as opposed to ordering them not to.
Yeah, you'd think so. You'd think human beings are rational creatures.
You'd be dead wrong. People buy little carboard boxes that says on them "This product will kill you" and (i'm not making this up) "smoking can lead to a slow and painfull death". What the fuck does that say about reasoning with people?
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:12 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
Alcohol, on the other hand, has had no such campaing against it (Mothers Against Drunk Driving is losing the battle) so people drink like crazy.
So people drink excessively because there is no campaign against drinking? That sounds silly.
It seems a great deal of aggression in society is started by drunks, that's why I avoid bars like the plague (too many aggressive idiots there).
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:26 am
Alez
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Actually berzerker, there are 2 types of drunks. The ones that become friendlier and the ones that become more violent the more they drink.
From my experience one in 15 drinkers is a violent one.
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:26 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
So people drink excessively because there is no campaign against drinking? That sounds silly.
Not only is there no campaign against drinking, there is a campaign for it. In my opinion, every movie that's made encourages people that it's cool/socially acceptable to drink.
berzerker wrote:
It seems a great deal of aggression in society is started by drunks, that's why I avoid bars like the plague (too many aggressive idiots there).
Ya, alcohol makes you VERY aggressive
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:42 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
Not only is there no campaign against drinking, there is a campaign for it. In my opinion, every movie that's made encourages people that it's cool/socially acceptable to drink.
Games are much better in this respect (there is little drinking in games, except as a gimmick in Bioshock / Deus Ex etc). We could use this argument pro games if another idiot comes up claiming that games should be banned / censored.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:44 am
berzerker
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Alez wrote:
From my experience one in 15 drinkers is a violent one.
Generally there are more than 15 persons in a bar.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:55 am
Alez
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Yes but a "violent" one doesn't have to get violent. Until that point he can just be an asshole or shit like that. Just like the friendly drinkers don't always end up at stranger's tables making friends that they won't remember the other day.
In other words, there are very few dudes that start fights from drinking and they rarely do more than just talk really loud and annoy those around them.
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 3:41 pm
puk
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berzerker wrote:
Games are much better in this respect (there is little drinking in games, except as a gimmick in Bioshock / Deus Ex etc). We could use this argument pro games if another idiot comes up claiming that games should be banned / censored.
Well video games have their problems too. They are extremely violent, and a total waste of time.
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