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VideoGamesSuck.com :: View topic - Year videogames started going downhill...
April 3, 2006... A date which will live in infamy.
Why, exactly? Please do explain.
I would argue that until Dragon Age II, games were still ARGUABLY good
(meaning that there was no definitive answer one way or the other). Dragon Age II showed us what game companies and marketing executives really think of people, however.
I mean to say that gaming is in a sad state when a developer thinks people are stupid and gullible enough to pay for something (horse armor) that could be easily implemented by the modding community free of charge. Then again, how would the console Oblivion players get access to such content without having to pay for it?
So Oblivion had horse armor DLC? thats dumb.
But compared to BioWare's "DLC" Bethesda's DLC has been pretty reasonable at least. The Shivering Isles was a good DLC, whereas now BioWare wants us to be $60 plus $10 for DLC on DAY ONE just to have full content. Actually I had read that Mass Effect 2 had content that an Xbox patch deleted in order to resell as DLC.
So yea DLC is ruining games.
THe fault lies with marketers and business majors. Anything they touch becomes filthy and ruined.
I agree on Shivering Isles. It was well worth the money because it was professionally made with plenty of new content, basically how any good expansion should be. My only fear is that some day mod support will be eradicated completely in favor of DLC. While Bethesda did good with Skyrim to continue the tradition of releasing mod tools, I just wish other developers would follow suit.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:03 pm
nakedcammy
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Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Posts: 8
Fallout4 wrote:
GO back to your atari and Nintendo 1 and get rid of your computer instead of being an "Old games are sooo much better than new ones" hipster.
This is proof that you are one of the idiot gaming masses, you can't even think or criticize modern games without going into a fucking conniption. Whenever someone criticizes something you emotionally love you go into insult mode.
I call you retarded because you dont' even think about the games you are playing and you can't even cogently articulate any meaningful support of your argument. I can point out exactly where modern games suck and no one can dispute it - Fallout, skyrim, all have huge pacing issues and poor combat - there are other games that do it better. People who can't see that these games have mediocre combat systems are by definition stupid and not intelligent enough to be reviewing games because they are not experienced enough to even see the games flaws.
Anyone who has been PC gaming for a long time has watched stupid people buying DRM and DLC infected games making games worse so now mass effect 3 has release day 1 DLC because idiots keep buying it up.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:28 pm
Fallout4
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Joined: Nov 14, 2011
Posts: 125
nakedcammy wrote:
Fallout4 wrote:
GO back to your atari and Nintendo 1 and get rid of your computer instead of being an "Old games are sooo much better than new ones" hipster.
This is proof that you are one of the idiot gaming masses
Anyone who has been PC gaming for a long time has watched stupid people buying DRM and DLC infected games making games worse so now mass effect 3 has release day 1 DLC because idiots keep buying it up.
Like I said, you're a hipster. Only hipsters whine about how they are one of the few people who "gets it" and the "idiot masses" are ruining everything.
So please stop using your computer. Computers have ruined the system of writing on paper and mailing it to people that was the pinnacle of expressing your hipster views on the world. If you're not writing your opinions on special parchment from the 1700s using a $300 Organic Ink Stylist Calligraphy Pen, then you're using a mediocre form of communication.
Seriously, those 12 year old girl jeans won't buy themselves. Also I think there were some really stupid, old but ironically hip Converse sneakers you might want to look at.
If Fallout had such mediocre combat, why haven't you just made a better game and sold it? You are complaining about things that are the limitations of technology and gaming engines, not about businesspeople wanting more money like we are complaining about. My complaint about Fallout is the fact that the Gamebryo engine does not allow for more NPCs such that Oblivion's final battle had like 8 people (same with the Hoover Dam battle in New Vegas). That is the limitation of their technology. Consoles are partly to blame for that. But it beats the hell out of any of the old Fallout games you know why? Because I have to click my mouse 100 times just to move 20 feet in Fallout 1 and 2. That is stupid. Old timey games are old, get over it.
Bethesda games all of crappy combat. No one plays them because of the combat. If they had good combat, then they would be undisputed greatest games of all time. All the other parts of the game are enough to make up for that. If you choose to have a MASSIVE open world game then the technology is not there to have highly sophisticated EVERYTHING ELSE. So the AI sucks. Most games today have crappy AI.
So I stick by my accusation that you are one of the faggy retarded hipsters who tell everyone else they are "the retarded masses." If most people like it then it must be for "the retarded masses."
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:20 pm
Pogma9
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Are we forgetting about the combat in NVegas?...it's one of the best shooters and unlike FO3, allowed for plenty of long range weapons and ammo, and as I said, there's a very high degree of diff if you choose it.....so it's odd that idiot cammy keeps dissing on NV.
Speaking of forgetting, Skyrim also has some of the best sound quality and probably the best use of sound ever, and yes I know, that can be written off as part of high production values, but can anyone with even half a brain really separate the music from the gameplay....
re-Skyrim, I'd played FO3/NV, but not Oblivion or any swords and sandals type of RPG, so I was concerned about combat, but I must say, it's decent overall, ie, the bow and it's mechanics are pretty good and a lot slicker than I thought it'd be, and the blocking mechanics and animations are very good, however, striking can be a little weak, but despite the protests from cammy{what else has he done}, some of the kill animations are reasonably good and visceral.
Another thing about open world games, especially one the scale of Skyrim, is that it's strengths can often contribute to it's weaknesses, so we see cammy whine about fast travel, so if we reduced the games size and made it more linear, then that'd be solved, but you'd decrease the games splendor and annoy those with a non ADD mindset{like cammy who needs second by second stimulation}.
Skyrim is one if the best games that's only going to get better thanks to the integration of Steamworks and the scores of quality mods that'll make their way thru.
Cammy, maybe someone will make a smaller Skyrim, so walking from Riverwood to Whiterun only takes a few seconds huh...heck, why not remove all of skyrims tundra and just connect all the cities for ADD cammy's sake.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:04 pm
Fallout4
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Joined: Nov 14, 2011
Posts: 125
New Vegas was definitely a step in the right direction in terms of combat. They added a lot of things that Fallout 3 did not have but modders created for the game, like iron sights, greater variety of weapons, and better melee weapons.
Fallout's universe is something people fantasize about living in (ok....well maybe only I do). You cannot say that about most games.
If you don't like open world games then Dragon Age: Origins (for PC only) is an awesome game. The only problem is that the combat gets repetitive (too many repetitive waves of enemies just to get from point A to point B in a castle). But Dragon Age II was such a disgrace that the whole franchise is ruined.
The S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games are also set in a universe that gives people the same sense of wonder and awe as Fallout, but it is actually closer to our world. It is not completely open world but pretty close (there are several open areas that you have to transition to once you reach the edge of a particular map). THe mechanics are great, the graphics are great (especially if you have the Complete 2009 mod for Shadow of Chernobyl), the AI in Call of Pripyat moves really well and on any difficulty the game is challenging. The only thing missing is voice acting but even that is there in important places.
Did you like Bioshock? That was not open world and I enjoyed it very much.
Asassin's Creed II? Talk about production values -- that game had such amazing production value that they are trying to turn it into a film (and not an Uwe Boll film either I think). And the game was awesome. Another universe you can fall in love with.
Far Cry 2 missed its mark but had a LOT of potential. THat game was so close to greatness it is sad, but again it was open world for the most part.
Anyone who says Skyrim is average and Oblivion, Fallout 3, and New Vegas are below average is a troll for sure. When I was a kid playing the original Nintendo or Atari or Super Nintendo or Sega Genesis or whatever else, I remember thinking about what video games would be like in the future. What I imagined was very close to Fallout 3. If games progress as fast, then in 10 years it will be even better. However, because of consoles (which are not really super evil but do slow down progress) and this new trend towards DLC nickel and diming crap that marketers came up with, and the fact that game studios are spending too much of their budget on marketing and not enough on game development, the rate of progress is going to be slower. Thus, games started going downhill OFFICIALLY on the day that BioWare and Electronic Arts sold the world Mass Effect 3 and then simultaneously demanded $10 more for a DLC containing the rest of the full game.
If you have not played oblivion, I think it is still worth a look at some point. It has some amazing sound/music (some better than skyrim). Jeremy Soule composes all the music for these games and he is really good at it. Skyrim is definitely better than any game I can think of from the time period that the Troll is referring to (The age before graphics when a gallon of milk cost only a nickel and blacks weren't allowed to drink from the same water fountains). If Bethesda can fix its AI in terms of combat, and make the movement seem less mechanical, and also stop making us go into what is supposed to be the MASSIVE CLIMACTIC BATTLE where we only see 2 enemes and 2 NPCs, then they can make a 10/10 game.
How can someone complain about bad combat in a game from 2008 and 2009 when they are comparing it to the combat from any game before, say, 2004, like this guy is doing? It doesn't make sense. How is that combat better? Most of it was turn-based in RPGS and annoying as hell to sit through.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:27 pm
nakedcammy
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Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Posts: 8
Fallout4 wrote:
New Vegas was definitely a step in the right direction in terms of combat.
Pogma9 wrote:
Are we forgetting about the combat in NVegas?...it's one of the best shooters and unlike FO3
And here you both admit that these games had mediocre combat, just like I was saying. These games were tolerable but they weren't great and hence this site.
The reason why the gaming industry puts out so many first person shooter games is because people can easily over look their flaws. Because it's hard to fuck up a first person shooter. That's why most developers focus on fps - because they can hide how badly they suck. When shit like homefront can sell and have map packs, you know gamers are morons at understanding bad games when it comes to first person shooters.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:41 pm
Pogma9
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nakedcammy wrote:
And here you both admit that these games had mediocre combat, just like I was saying.
You're becoming more stupid by the minute....
We both agreed that NV has good combat, in fact, as unlikely as it sounds, it's one of the best shooters ever made, now that's just my opinion, but when you have the amount of guns, the option to mod them and use alt ammo+ a very high degree of diff to warrant obtaining and using modified weapons and ammo, it's hard not to rate it so highly.
Also, even though both games are very similar in some regards, FO3 has a charm all on it's own, and even though ammo was a bit scarce, FO3's combat shotgun is one of the best guns in gaming, as was the scoped 44magnum, I could've played the whole game just with those 2.
NV raised the bar with scoped weapons and plenty of ammo, thank fuck, it was annoying not being able to use a scoped weapon freely in a huge world, but it also added scores of other guns including the modifiable laser rifle, which become my weapon of choice for those cocksucker cazadors.
Also, NV more than doubled the quest numbers, so overall, NV had better gameplay, but it also had a different looking world, and FO3's world was very gritty and quite impressive with a HD texture pack......so just in case you're unclear cammy, I like both games.
One more thing, many of us hate many games, and I hate consoles, so many of us are very critical of gaming, but some times they get it right, and FO3/NV and Skyrim are good games, never said they were perfect, but the way you write them off is ludicrous.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:08 am
Pogma9
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Fallout4 wrote:
Did you like Bioshock? That was not open world and I enjoyed it very much.
Far Cry 2 missed its mark but had a LOT of potential. .
There's a lot to like about Bioshock, but for whatever reason, I could only get 2/3rds of the way thru and never went back.
FC2 used to be my no1 "biggest disappointment in gaming", but that title now belongs to NFS Shift2 Unleashed, but no question, FC2 had strong production values and some strong technical merit in general, but damn, it just wore me down after awhile.
Wrt what you were saying about the future of gaming, it was FO3 that made me think, "now that's more like it", and it's that type of game that makes me realize how soulless most FPSers are.
Open world games by their very nature, provide scale, discovery/mystery and relative amounts of choice, certainly a boat load more than a typical mindless run and gun.....of course a tactical shooter isn't a run and gun and demands thought and the difficulty creates tension as well.
I also liked the idea of being able to buy a house in Windhelm, and when money no longer mattered, you could stock it with all sorts of armour and weapons etc, although I felt that concept could be expanded upon.
As for Oblivion, hehehhehee, I'd have to modify that to hell and back, cause I watched a 60min walkthru on ytube and Skyrim annihilated it.
The only thing I was curious about Oblivion was the Dark BrotherHood, cause at least for me, I much preferred The Thieves Guild than DB in Skyrim, but some people say DB was much better in Oblivion.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:48 am
Fallout4
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Posts: 125
Pogma9 wrote:
Fallout4 wrote:
Did you like Bioshock? That was not open world and I enjoyed it very much.
Far Cry 2 missed its mark but had a LOT of potential. .
There's a lot to like about Bioshock, but for whatever reason, I could only get 2/3rds of the way thru and never went back.
FC2 used to be my no1 "biggest disappointment in gaming", but that title now belongs to NFS Shift2 Unleashed, but no question, FC2 had strong production values and some strong technical merit in general, but damn, it just wore me down after awhile.
As for Oblivion, hehehhehee, I'd have to modify that to hell and back, cause I watched a 60min walkthru on ytube and Skyrim annihilated it.
The only thing I was curious about Oblivion was the Dark BrotherHood, cause at least for me, I much preferred The Thieves Guild than DB in Skyrim, but some people say DB was much better in Oblivion.
The Dark Brotherhood quests in Skyrim were WAY TOO RUSHED through. It was like 3 quests and you're already at the big finale. The same goes for the Mages Guild (or I guess, College of Winterhold as it is called). That was the most rushed through questline in the history of Bethesda. I would actually argue that the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and Mages Guild questlines were all better in Oblivion and Skyrim has one thing against it which is that Bethesda is dumbing down their storylines to rush through so they don't have to work as much. You literally become the Arch Mage (leader/head) of the College of Winterhold in like 2 hours of gameplay. That is unacceptable and ruins the immersion entirely.
So Skyrim has way too short questlines in those cases. But the graphics are so much better and the mechanics of NPCs is better so overall the game is much better (Oblivion had some ugly faces compared to Skyrim, just google the face comparison picture some guy made).
I have played Fallout 3 probably 1000 hours. I am actually planning on playing it again soon. If the combat was mediocre then why are many others finding themselves playing these games that long? Oh right, we're the "Retarded masses"
Small producers also make some great games. Stalker 2 is in production and should be good unless they all just sit around drinking Vodak instead of working. I am playing Natural Selection 2 Beta which is a Real-Time Strategy/First Person Shooter multiplayer hybrid. It was originally a mod for half-life 1 and Natural Selection (the original) is still free if you have half-life 1 installed. NS2 is in beta though and costs some money. But the point is that modders are putting out some games that can occupy as much of your time as major studios. I find Natural Selection much more involving than call of duty, thats for sure. And it was free originally -- imagine a game studio making a game for free now. It would never happen.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:43 am
Dick_In_Your_Ass
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Pogma9 wrote:
Interesting as Skyrim....
Has some of the best GFX overall{PC}
Has the best environments I've ever seen.
Has excellent character models.
Has quite good animations overall.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:56 am
Pogma9
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playing on the console hey champ, sux 2 b u.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:05 am
Pogma9
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Fallout4 wrote:
The Dark Brotherhood quests in Skyrim were WAY TOO RUSHED through.
Can't disagree with that, I never felt I earn't arch mage status, nor DB acceptance, but I guess this is something we may never get away from anymore, ie, games of this size and depth that are totally finished, I mean, they clearly put plenty of work into this game, and it's only crashed twice in 200hrs+ on me, that along with the IQ for the 6.5gig is very impressive.
Anyway, I had a heap of fun playing it, played for over 6 weeks, LOL, and it's quite possible that all DLC will be decent as they claim they're moving away from 5 short and sweet DLC like FO3/NV.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:41 am
nakedcammy
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Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Posts: 8
Quote:
You're becoming more stupid by the minute....
Nope. You're just don't have what it takes to understand how badly modern games have become handholding newbfests. Looking at you pointing out the flaws in the games you had a conniption over when I criticized them is enlightening after I had said that they had serious issues.
The reason this video was made was because people like you wouldn't get the full jist of it.
This video is an attack on all modern games, the fallouts, the oblivions, and yes even the bioshocks of the world. Fallout, oblivion, skyrim and bioshock all have heavy doses of consol-itis.
Modern games aren't better, they're just better at hiding their flaws with hollywood, graphics and cinematic bling. If you removed all the dialogue and cinematic elements from mass effect you wouldn't have a very good game. That's the real issue most modern games have, if you take away all the candy coating there's not much left. Some games I admit do alright but even they have issues (Asscreed 2, Deadspace).
Developers just use cheap psychological designs - they reward players for everything they do. In the end, the gameplay isn't very fun, but it's just as appealing as gambling.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:58 am
Pogma9
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nakedcammy wrote:
Quote:
You're becoming more stupid by the minute....
Nope. You're just don't have what it takes to understand how badly modern games have become handholding newbfests.
You're not telling us anything we don't know fuckwad.
Both FO3 and especially NV have good diff levels, Skyrim is also reasonable, but not as difficult as NV.
Btw, I'm someone who plays and prefers tactical shooters and PC racing sims, both of which come with extreme difficulty, so fuck off and join any ole random gaming forum and enlighten those dummies.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:45 am
Fallout4
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Posts: 125
nakedcammy wrote:
Quote:
You're becoming more stupid by the minute....
Fallout, oblivion, skyrim and bioshock all have heavy doses of consol-itis.
Modern games aren't better, they're just better at hiding their flaws with hollywood, graphics and cinematic bling. If you removed all the dialogue and cinematic elements from mass effect you wouldn't have a very good game. That's the real issue most modern games have, if you take away all the candy coating there's not much left. Some games I admit do alright but even they have issues (Asscreed 2, Deadspace).
If you removed all the dialogue from any game you think is good then it would suck also. HURRR DURRR
Mass Effect is too much like a movie, Bethesda combat sucks, but to say that a game from 10 years ago is better is retarded. Final Fantasy VII was also like that, but it was one of the best games ever made.
Everyone agrees games are dumbed down I don't know why you think you are some Gaming Messiah who has come to spread this unknown Truth to the "retarded masses." You're just a hipster douchebag who thinks he knows some enlightened secret. Newsflash d-bag: games are getting dumbed down because of business majors placing priority over money, get used to it. Do what I did and enjoy what you get and find some underappreciated gems made by small studios along the way.
You're not enlightening anyone with your whining.
If you want to get rid of console-itis then lower the price of graphics cards so the 3 nVidia 580s required to run games on Ultra for 2 years minimum don't cost the same as 7 or 10 Xbox consoles.
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:33 pm
_Master_
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Code:
Ape_Shall_Never_Kill_Ape=pogma
Code:
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Code:
Sigma=+-30%
_________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:58 pm
Pogma9
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_Master_ wrote:
Code:
Ape_Shall_Never_Kill_Ape=pogma
Code:
Confidence=70%
Code:
Sigma=+-30%
dafuck?????????????
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:57 am
Pogma
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_Master_ wrote:
Code:
Ape_Shall_Never_Kill_Ape=pogma
Code:
Confidence=70%
Code:
Sigma=+-30%
dafuck?????????????
_________________ Real men use a wheel!
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:09 am
craterface
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Posts: 356
I also noticed the phenomenon when 3D started to ruin everything. Now he situation is better, but back then everything seemed so ugly with the low polygons. And to be honest 2D games are wonderful and so beautiful. They have waaay more characteristics then the 3D ones. When you play the latter, everything looks just bland and the enviroment are all the same in EVERY game.
And I just hated the fact that they were (and are) forcing 3D to every game even those who didn't needed it. The games I loved from the dawn of 3D were all 2D like Heroes 3, Worms Armageddon, Baldur's Gate, Fallout...
I acutally found a nice alternative to my 2D hunger when I bought a GBA SP with Yoshi's Island to help me pass the time on eventless nights on the job. I got hooked on it really fast. Sounds silly I know, but some games are insanely fun on that machine and can hold my interest over the PC games and I'm not talking about pokemon-shit or any dumb shit nintendo is known for. Believe it or not, there are a lot of good games on that system that although look old, can be long and complex. Some PRG-s like the Final Fantasy series (VI was EPIC) or Golden Sun, strategic titles like the super addictive Advance Wars or the awesome Fire Emblem (still have to try Yggdra Union). And I always liked 2D platformers on the PC too back then and the 3 Castlevania games (especially the first) and Metorid Zero Mission were really satisfying (I still have M. Fusion before me). And holy shit, I played through the uber-awesome Lost Vikings again.. damn, it was great.
I still play with it since there are so many good games and all of them are cheap. Of course I also have a flash cart with a lot of ROM-s on it (I can download them from the net) in case I want to try one or just pirate it if I don't find it anywhere or don't want to spend money on it.
But recently I just found Super Robot Taisen 1-2 (another turn based strategy game) and it seems really nice (although some attack scenes are quite exaggerating). And they say those games are 50 hour long each...
Looking forward to it.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:27 am
Ape_Shall_Never_Kill_Ape
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Posts: 130
Love playing GBA games on the Game Boy Player. Despite the games' inherent low resolution, they look pretty good through component cables on my TV.
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