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VideoGamesSuck.com :: View topic - Prison population and cost
No, if proves only that they are *convicted* disproportionally
.
By all means make it fairer, but if you're guilty then you should suffer....and it just seems to me that blacks in America must like suffering.
I think there's a ridiculous number of rapes in America, and a disturbing amount of black men raping white woman, so I'd be inclined to be very conscious of these figures.
Making life easier for "hardcore" crims is last on my to do list btw.
Re: Prison population and cost
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:03 am
Cabbie-Galah
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Pogma9 wrote:
Cabbie-Galah wrote:
Bullshit. Tertiary qualifications are desirable as is life experience, but those are not essential to join. Nor is being superfit, as long as you are at a level to perform the everyday duties of an officer.
maybe in your fucked up state, but not in QLD "asshead".....LOL.
So the QLD police force are full of textbook nerds? FFS, how will knowledge on 1950s industrial relations or marketing a can of cat food help defend oneself from a gun to the head.
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:09 am
Pogma9
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I suspect the aim is to weed out no hoppers who'd take bribes and be deadwood long term.
If the Underbelly series are anything to go by, then police corruption is integral to modern society.
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:15 am
Cabbie-Galah
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Pogma9 wrote:
I suspect the aim is to weed out no hoppers who'd take bribes and be deadwood long term.
If the Underbelly series are anything to go by, then police corruption is integral to modern society.
A degree doesn't prevent corruption. The way some 'educated' businessmen conduct themselves is testament to that. I'd say it filters out just as many potential decent cops as bad.
Re: Prison population and cost
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:53 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
There are two views to incarceration: retribution or rehabilitation. I don't agree that prisons rehabilitate you, so you might as well just not put them in prison. But I do believe in retribution since one should be held accountable for one's actions.
It is not retribution OR rehabilitation, it should be both.
The purpose of retribution is to protect society and to hold you accountable viz a viz society, not viz a viz victims. People like pogma fail to see that with "what if this happens to you" rethorics. The idea is that taking away someone's freedom for some time is a humane punishment. There's no need for additional punishments, with tough prison regulations etc.
Now you have electronic surveillance etc which enable such punishments without prisons, so someone can leave his house only 1 hour a day or so, allow him to go only to work outside the house, etc, I'm all for that.
If I understand it correctly the US are trying such punishments too, because they are much cheaper. Added benefit is that it keeps convicts out of 'crime school' (that is what prison seems to have become, given the absence of rehabilitation programs).
And it would be foolish to focus solely on retribution, because what good is it to society if crimes are repeated after prison time? You cannot change the past, it seems to make perfectly sense to focus on the future and prevent future crimes by treating convicts as to prevent them from doing it again. Sure, it won't help with some, you can lock them up for long periods, but it will help with others.
Then there's the matter of compensation of victims. In many cases that won't be possible at all, but shit happens. I think the solution for that should be first party insurance, but that's another story.
Re: Prison population and cost
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:44 pm
puk
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berzerker wrote:
It is not retribution OR rehabilitation, it should be both...someone can leave his house only 1 hour a day or so...the US are trying such punishments too, because they are much cheaper....And it would be foolish to focus solely on retribution, because what good is it to society if crimes are repeated after prison time? You cannot change the past, it seems to make perfectly sense to focus on the future...Then there's the matter of compensation of victims. In many cases that won't be possible at all, but shit happens. I think the solution for that should be first party insurance, but that's another story.
But you seem to be taking the victims family out of the equation. By your logic, it's most economical to not even try to criminals, so we shouldn't even pursue them. Whatever the cost, present and future, the family deserves justice.
Re: Prison population and cost
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:49 pm
berzerker
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puk wrote:
But you seem to be taking the victims family out of the equation. By your logic, it's most economical to not even try to criminals, so we shouldn't even pursue them. Whatever the cost, present and future, the family deserves justice.
I do not think family should be part of the equation at all. They can sue in a civil court for compensation if they want to. And in many crimes families will not come into play at all, because the victim does not die, and then not the family but the victim himself that matters. But I do not think the victim should be involved in the criminal procedure either.
Let's take death of a relative. This could happen for many reasons: suicide, accidents, murder, sickness, old age, etc. In all cases the loss will be the same. If the family wants to have this loss dealt with in some way, what's the reason to treat an accident (usually no remedy) so different from murder (usually both criminal and civil proceedings are available)? It seems really odd.
That's why I said first party insurance may be a better system for dealing with victims / families. They know what it would mean to them to lose a relative, let them decide to what extent they want to insure against that risk. If they choose not to insure at all, fine, then they accept the risk and should not whine if it materialises. But I do not think the criminal system should be burdened with protecting individual interests, it should focus on protecting common interests (i.e. the interests of society).
The insurance can deal with the compensation of the victim / family (the individual interests) and the criminal system deals with punishing perpetrators and preventing future crimes (the common interests).
I do not think such a system exists anywhere, there's probably a reason for that, but whatever that is, it escapes me.
Re: Prison population and cost
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:49 pm
Pogma9
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berzerker wrote:
There's no need for additional punishments, with tough prison regulations etc.
Where did I say anything like this?
The reality is, if we took your advice, then more whites, latino's and chinks would be in jail as well.
My primary concern is whether or not the person is deemed guilty, if they are, then they should be removed from society for a term relative to their crime.
I don't object to any new and cheaper/more effective methods of dealing with low risk crims, but hardcore/habitual crims can be executed IMO, so I certainly don't want them having any deluxe form of treatment.
Re: Prison population and cost
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:51 pm
Pogma9
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puk wrote:
By your logic, it's most economical to not even try to criminals, so we shouldn't even pursue them.
His posts reek of sympathy for the devil.
Re: Prison population and cost
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:10 pm
berzerker
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Pogma9 wrote:
puk wrote:
By your logic, it's most economical to not even try to criminals, so we shouldn't even pursue them.
His posts reek of sympathy for the devil.
You're supposed to read them, not smell them, now I'm beginning to understand what causes these sometimes slightly bizarre replies from you that seem to be only slightly related to what I actually wrote.
Re: Prison population and cost
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:18 pm
Pogma9
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berzerker wrote:
Pogma9 wrote:
puk wrote:
By your logic, it's most economical to not even try to criminals, so we shouldn't even pursue them.
His posts reek of sympathy for the devil.
You're supposed to read them, not smell them, now I'm beginning to understand what causes these sometimes slightly bizarre replies from you that seem to be only slightly related to what I actually wrote.
You've been whinging about blacks being over represented in US prisons....so I asked whether you thought they might be innocent, to which you replied in the negative, as such, it's apparent that you've either confused yourself, or simply want to discuss ways and means of making "detainment" a more enjoyable experience for some turd who may have raped scores of women.
If we think it's a problem releasing these fucks, then we should either detain them permanently or execute them.
We should be rewarding productive decent people, not scum of the earth.
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:21 am
Dick_In_Your_Ass
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coloureds and blacks are mostly reported on and tried/incarcerated for violent crimes,here in SA.IMO the former(a minority btw),is understandable since they are the chavs of the country and the latter is a mixture of blaks frm other countries(mostly druglords and pimps)
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:29 am
Suislide
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Posts: 509
If you guys weren't stupid, which most of you are because you are Eurotrash conspiracy theorists without the intellectual knowledge to actually have a discussion, it is basically down to the laws for marijuana and prostitution (and possibly drinking and driving due to much lower access to public transportation).
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:53 am
berzerker
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Suislide wrote:
If you guys weren't stupid, which most of you are because you are Eurotrash
I'm counting 2 Australians, 1 Canadian, 1 American, 1 South-African and 1 European in this thread.
Suislide wrote:
it is basically down to the laws for marijuana and prostitution (and possibly drinking and driving due to much lower access to public transportation).
Then why do you make such silly laws that put such a big chunk of the population behind bars? Other civilized countries seem to do just fine without them.
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:21 am
Dick_In_Your_Ass
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Suislide wrote:
If you guys weren't stupid, which most of you are because you are Eurotrash conspiracy theorists without the intellectual knowledge to actually have a discussion, it is basically down to the laws for marijuana and prostitution (and possibly drinking and driving due to much lower access to public transportation).
angry over DA2?
knvm.
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:35 am
puk
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Suislide wrote:
If you guys weren't stupid, which most of you are because you are Eurotrash conspiracy theorists without the intellectual knowledge to actually have a discussion, it is basically down to the laws for marijuana and prostitution (and possibly drinking and driving due to much lower access to public transportation).
There's your redneck one liner
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:39 am
puk
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Berzerker your comments are pretty cold. I think one should take the families of the victims into account also. It justs seems...normal.
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:20 am
berzerker
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It does at first, but it appears to make no sense if you start to think about it a bit more.
Something similar applies to insider trading for example. It is obviously wrong and it is a criminal offense everywhere I think, but when you think of it, you wonder why it should be a criminal offense. The use of insider trading information makes the price more correct, it does not distort markets, quite the contrary. In addition, it is hard to prove and prosecute, and society is full of situations in which someone who has more information can make a profit out of it, yet these are all perfectly legal.
But I am digressing.
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:09 am
Pogma9
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Suislide wrote:
If you guys weren't stupid, which most of you are because you are Eurotrash conspiracy theorists without the intellectual knowledge to actually have a discussion, it is basically down to the laws for marijuana and prostitution (and possibly drinking and driving due to much lower access to public transportation).
Shut up cunt!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:46 am
Suislide
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I'm sorry that you are all mad that I was correct.
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