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but in a computer, we only push a button that is either on or off. so what are the circumstances that influences the outcome in a computer?
we model them behind probability distribution functions, eg Poisson distribution and prime number math. Probability and randomness go hand in hand
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Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:09 pm
_Master_
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puk wrote:
Well I don't fully understand what Master meant up there
didnt expect you to either with your half knowledge of things.
Last edited by _Master_ on Fri May 28, 2010 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total _________________ follow me or get out of the way
Re: Garry's Mod
Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:35 pm
_Master_
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puk wrote:
I've used C++ before but it's a nightmare.
its not a language you learn over night, programming is an art you perfect it over time. all the things you bitch about are the signs of someone who didnt spend time mastering it or use it effectively for what it was intended for
puk wrote:
Also I don't know who uses it.
fuck i knew you where a dumb kid when you asked what the Function keys where, but this one tops it. perhaps you should ask tim sweeny in which language he wrote unreal engine for starters.
puk wrote:
If the program is computationally intensive, you would use C since the message calls involved in object oriented design are, so I've been told, are expensive.
fuck you idiot, the performance differences are minimal. all large projects go in for c++ over c because it makes your life simple. You can still user pointers in c++ and corner cut to get the same speed as in c using today's hardware and modern compilers. It has a larger mem footprint, which may favour c in an some embedded environments.
puk wrote:
I started using C, then I realized it's for fags, so I switched to Python. Python is the coolest language ever.
fyi the reference python implemention is called cPython and is coded in 'c'. In other words if you are incapable of programming you bitch out and opt for a babys language like python. or if you came from a non-computer science background, like a scientist. perhaps you are an alchemist?
puk wrote:
To give you an example of how Python pwns C, in C lets say you have a variable 'baby' and you don't know if your new baby will be a boy or a girl, so you have to create a class child, then two classes boy_child and girl_child inheriting from child. Then declare baby as a special type (deferred I think), then do something like this
baby?=result_of_pregnancy()
what is this BS you are talking about?? first of all you don't have inheritance principle in c. it is in c++, get your facts straight.
puk wrote:
whereas in Python you just skip all that and do
baby=result_of_pregnancy().
yeah but it took some1 smart to write the reference cPython implementation which is in 'c' so that a noob like you can find out if the baby is his.
classic example => buying a computer from dell or assembling it yourself. i gather you fall in the former category.
Last edited by _Master_ on Fri May 28, 2010 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total _________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:41 pm
_Master_
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puk wrote:
It's essentially C++ with an easier interface and memory management.
no is is not essentially C++, the only thing common are that they are both Object Oriented. Often candidates for interviews we get who want to switch from java to c++ and get ass raped in the process because they dont understand the simple concept of pointers.
puk wrote:
The problem with Java is what's called it's 'virtual machine'. This is kind of like an emulator for, say, PS2 or NES. But Java's is really poor. I remember my professor telling me how he met with the Sun Java team and pointed out where there are flaws in the virtual machine. So they are aware that it's a slow ass piece of shit. But for whatever reason they won't/can't fix it.
yeah then you can aptly put in python too. CPython reference implementation is using byte code method like java.
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Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:44 pm
puk
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craterface wrote:
i only vaguely understand the first paragraph, but it's not your fault. but what you're saying still doesn't explain how to generate randomness out of nothing. i mean how to get something that follows the laws of physics to do something that is above it, or at least not affected by it...
The problem is if you have a function for random numbers, then technically it's not random, b/c you could use the function to guess the next number.
The easiest way to get a purely random number is to use the environment (temperature or pressure). If you use a random function it's still fine, so long as you 'seed' it. The prob with using functions is that they are not 'random'. It's like giving a list of rock/paper/scissor permutations. It's not random.
In lay terms, if your g/f sucks your cock every time, that's not random, but if you 'seed' it by saying, "OK, today, I'm gonna go down on you like a sushi bar", and tomorrow you say "OK, now I'm going to use the shocker on you", that's more random.
Re: Garry's Mod
Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:56 pm
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
I've used C++ before but it's a nightmare.
its not a language you learn over night, programming is an art you perfect it over time. all the things you bitch about are the signs of someone who didnt spend time mastering it or use it effectively for what it was intended for
Well I have been programming for 10 years, so I think I know what I am talking about. Try to write a hello world program in C++ and tell me how long that takes. You have to import the standard files (what programming language doesn't have a default print statement for crying out loud???) then you have to compile the thing, which alone takes a tutorial or two.
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
If the program is computationally intensive, you would use C since the message calls involved in object oriented design are, so I've been told, are expensive.
fuck you idiot, the performance differences are minimal. all large projects go in for c++ over c because it makes your life simple. You can still user pointers in c++ and corner cut to get the same speed as in c using today's hardware and modern compilers. It has a larger mem footprint, which may favour c in an some embedded environments.
You know someone has a good point when they use 'idiot' in their argument.
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
I started using C, then I realized it's for fags, so I switched to Python. Python is the coolest language ever.
fyi the reference python implemention is called cPython and is coded in 'c'. In other words if you are incapable of programming you bitch out and opt for a babys language like python. or if you came from a non-computer science background, like a scientist. perhaps you are an alchemist?
C is good if you need bleeding edge performance, but it is incredibly difficult to use. For fucks sake a string has to be terminated in a null character.
Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:59 pm
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
... they dont understand the simple concept of pointers.
pointers are not a 'simple concept'. While we're going nuts, why don't we call vi a 'simple editor', and gnuplot a 'simple graph generator'.
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
The problem with Java is what's called it's 'virtual machine'. This is kind of like an emulator for, say, PS2 or NES. But Java's is really poor. I remember my professor telling me how he met with the Sun Java team and pointed out where there are flaws in the virtual machine. So they are aware that it's a slow ass piece of shit. But for whatever reason they won't/can't fix it.
yeah then you can aptly put in python too. CPython reference implementation is using byte code method like java.
So what you're saying is that you have no idea how the Java virtual machine works?
Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:21 am
Dick_In_Your_Ass
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Helloworld in java took me like 5 mins.
Re: Garry's Mod
Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:53 am
berzerker
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_Master_ wrote:
if you are incapable of programming you bitch out and opt for a babys language like python.
I am no programmer, but why would C(++) be the ultimate programming language? You could equally argue that real man code in assembly.
You program something to get a particular job done efficiently, and I can imagine that for some jobs C would be the logical choice whereas for other Visual Basic would suffice and for still others assembly would be preferable. It is not like the one is somehow inferior to another.
Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 5:16 am
puk
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Dick_In_Your_Ass wrote:
Helloworld in java took me like 5 mins.
I don't know if you think that takes long, but it should not take that long. In python you would type
$python
which brings up the interpreter ('>>' is the command line for python mode), then you would type
>>print "Hello World"
I can't remember Java, but I imagine you have to create a main class, and import packages, and then compile the thing.
Re: Garry's Mod
Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 5:24 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
I am no programmer, but why would C(++) be the ultimate programming language?
C is fast. I won't deny that. And if you need performance, that what you should go for. So when he says ultimate programming language, he probably means a program written in C will be faster and/or more stable than one written in python. But programming in C is a nightmare. There aren't even basic functions. So, for example, if I make an array (list) of 10 integers, I can't later query the size of that array. I have to forever keep a variable to remember the size of the array. This is why C is fast. It doesn't even have a run time manager which keeps track of the size of arrays.
Re: Garry's Mod
Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 5:46 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
But programming in C is a nightmare. There aren't even basic functions. So, for example, if I make an array (list) of 10 integers, I can't later query the size of that array. I have to forever keep a variable to remember the size of the array. This is why C is fast. It doesn't even have a run time manager which keeps track of the size of arrays.
I am familiar only with some application scripting languages (VBA the last few 6 years or so) there too you have to declare an array and keep a variable (constant) to remember the size of the array (and VBA can by no means be considered fast of course). It do not think this is particularly troublesome (yes I know it was merely an example).
But obviously I agree with you that the time needed for running the program is not all decisive. The time you need in coding it is important too. It depends on the expected use of the program. If you can run it at night it may not be of any relevance if it takes 4 of 7 hours to finish, particularly not if you do not expect to run it often and the faster route would cost you days or weeks additional development time.
Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 7:23 am
puk
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Most businesses don't need that much efficiency for, say, a simple calendar program, or a user feedback program. Games are a different matter obviously. I think that is why businesses prefer Java for the their average programs.
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:11 am
Dick_In_Your_Ass
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puk wrote:
Dick_In_Your_Ass wrote:
Helloworld in java took me like 5 mins.
I don't know if you think that takes long, but it should not take that long. In python you would type
$python
which brings up the interpreter ('>>' is the command line for python mode), then you would type
>>print "Hello World"
I can't remember Java, but I imagine you have to create a main class, and import packages, and then compile the thing.
i was also looking at porn and toms hardware charts. :p
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:03 pm
puk
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Dick_In_Your_Ass wrote:
puk wrote:
Dick_In_Your_Ass wrote:
Helloworld in java took me like 5 mins.
I don't know if you think that takes long, but it should not take that long. In python you would type
$python
which brings up the interpreter ('>>' is the command line for python mode), then you would type
>>print "Hello World"
I can't remember Java, but I imagine you have to create a main class, and import packages, and then compile the thing.
i was also looking at porn and toms hardware charts. :p
Thank god for multithreading. You can fap to porn AND compile a program at the same time.
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 2:40 pm
Dick_In_Your_Ass
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LOL yep.
Re: Garry's Mod
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:52 pm
_Master_
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puk wrote:
Well I have been programming for 10 years, so I think I know what I am talking about.
you may have experience in programming in a particular language like VB for 20years, but thats not gonna help you understand c/c++ which are close to bare metal. also you comments dont seem like a person who has 10years of programming experience. if you like python good, but dont say stupid comments like c/c++ is useless and no one uses it. most of the games, databases, operating systems, embedded systems, realtime systems are written on these languages.
puk wrote:
Try to write a hello world program in C++ and tell me how long that takes. You have to import the standard files (what programming language doesn't have a default print statement for crying out loud???) then you have to compile the thing, which alone takes a tutorial or two.
your example of hello world is ridiculous, obviously these are not languages mean to print hello world or write a boring calculator.
puk wrote:
You know someone has a good point when they use 'idiot' in their argument.
yep esp when the 'idiot' is a total complete noob.
puk wrote:
C is good if you need bleeding edge performance, but it is incredibly difficult to use. For fucks sake a string has to be terminated in a null character.
its difficult to use because c/c++ are close to baremetal and often you need computer science concepts to understand them. if you are coming from another discipline like biology or electrical engineering, yes indeed this is not something for you. But to me bleeding edge performance is very very important.
puk wrote:
For fucks sake a string has to be terminated in a null character.
in c yes you need to do that because as i said these are very close to baremetal. the closer to the os you get more and more you need to be specific. however any one who has been writing c code for over a couple of years would have already deigned their own favorite functions to do the job for them. And besides you can simply use c++ 'std::string'. These arguments you present are issues often raised by first timers who are learning the language or come from other baby programing languages or scripts.
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:01 pm
_Master_
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puk wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
... they dont understand the simple concept of pointers.
pointers are not a 'simple concept'. While we're going nuts, why don't we call vi a 'simple editor', and gnuplot a 'simple graph generator'.
pointers are very simple concept. if a programming language cannot give me pointers then to me its a bloated abstraction. btw i do use vi on linux boxes, though its not what i work on. gnupolt and vi are typical linux programs which have the usual millions of commands approach. sure its probably in c, but so is windows or mac os.
puk wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
"]
puk wrote:
The problem with Java is what's called it's 'virtual machine'. This is kind of like an emulator for, say, PS2 or NES. But Java's is really poor. I remember my professor telling me how he met with the Sun Java team and pointed out where there are flaws in the virtual machine. So they are aware that it's a slow ass piece of shit. But for whatever reason they won't/can't fix it.
yeah then you can aptly put in python too. CPython reference implementation is using byte code method like java.
So what you're saying is that you have no idea how the Java virtual machine works?
actually i have no idea how you came to that conclusion using that crazy logic of yours.
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Re: Garry's Mod
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:14 pm
_Master_
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berzerker wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
if you are incapable of programming you bitch out and opt for a babys language like python.
I am no programmer, but why would C(++) be the ultimate programming language?
i didnt say c++ is the ultimate programming language, you have a stupid habit of inserting words9(& other things) where don't belong. so reread my knowledgeable replies again. But yes c/c++ for me is a programming language where you need real skill to write code unlike scripting or languages which cover everything under the hood.
berzerker wrote:
You could equally argue that real man code in assembly.
true, but you dont just sit and write huge amount of code in assembly. often you write it in c and then port it over to asm. and besides in c/c++ you can mix assembly code too, which shows these are languages of a different nature and league.
berzerker wrote:
You program something to get a particular job done efficiently, and I can imagine that for some jobs C would be the logical choice whereas for other Visual Basic would suffice and for still others assembly would be preferable.
agreed, but that was hardly the point. again you have some problem when it comes to reading. I pointed out puk's ignorance on his half ass comments about c/c++, if you had read the topic you would have understood.
berzerker wrote:
It is not like the one is somehow inferior to another.
c/c++ are undeniably powerful and indeed superior to most of the managed languages out there because they are close to OS running over baremetal. For less capable unfortunate beings other languages come to their rescue.
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Re: Garry's Mod
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:27 pm
_Master_
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puk wrote:
So when he says ultimate programming language,
fuck you guys are good, next you can convince me that i actually wrote that.
puk wrote:
he probably means a program written in C will be faster and/or more stable than one written in python.
glad & surprised you understood that.
puk wrote:
But programming in C is a nightmare. There aren't even basic functions.
use c++ or mix both if its a nightmare or dont use them. they have all the basic functions, its not bloatware.
puk wrote:
So, for example, if I make an array (list) of 10 integers, I can't later query the size of that array. I have to forever keep a variable to remember the size of the array.
if its a static array you can write a simple macro #define SIZEOF(X) sizeof(X)/sizeof(*X). you dont need to keep a variable. These are just non issues.
puk wrote:
It doesn't even have a run time manager which keeps track of the size of arrays.
and thank allah for that!! i dont want that bloatware or some clunky garbage collector running in the background.
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CPython reference implementation is using byte code method like java. 