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VideoGamesSuck.com :: View topic - ISLAM & JUDAISM
every time i reply i get vague illogical references from a history lesson.
Context is important. And I gave history lessons where they were applicable: different mid east countries, UN charter...
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:11 pm
puk
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Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 2140
Location: Southampton, UK
berzerker wrote:
Suislide wrote:
berzerker wrote:
Anyway, 1 person you know, some scientific background! Many people I know use drugs all the time, no one seems to have been affected in any way. People die of use of tobacco all the time on the other hand, but of course this is completely different.
!
IMHO if you use drugs, some tobacco or drink alcohol you are just plain stupid, but I told you before and you knocked me out with the brilliant question if I was 11 years old, so I guess you are a heavy drinker, suit yourself.
Pwned!
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:14 pm
_Master_
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Posts: 1711
berzerker wrote:
BTW it is interesting to note that the country with probably the most lenient approach to drugs has relatively so few problem users (link here), but of course you're more interested in your own petty experience than in wider facts so this is wasted information.
again you provide some stupid link and try to fit the link based on your petty stupid immature logic. Netherlands gets its revenue from tourism, tourists who go there to do drugs and sex. So are they gonna publish the number of OD's & deaths? obviously not.
Also who you are you tell me my experience is petty and yours is not, who the fuck are you? you know nothing about my personal difficulties i had to go thru because of a family member affected by drugs. i have repeatedly told you i have met with actual addicts in the process and psychologists in drug rehab centers who treat such cases. Their view is nothing like what you think it is. And all you have done is provided some stupid links.
Last edited by _Master_ on Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:03 pm, edited 3 times in total _________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:23 pm
_Master_
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Joined: Jun 18, 2009
Posts: 1711
puk wrote:
berzerker wrote:
Suislide wrote:
berzerker wrote:
Anyway, 1 person you know, some scientific background! Many people I know use drugs all the time, no one seems to have been affected in any way. People die of use of tobacco all the time on the other hand, but of course this is completely different.
!
IMHO if you use drugs, some tobacco or drink alcohol you are just plain stupid, but I told you before and you knocked me out with the brilliant question if I was 11 years old, so I guess you are a heavy drinker, suit yourself.
Pwned!
that is the problem you just dont get it. that shows the deaths, incidentally 17k is still quite a figure. but it doesnt tell you the whole picture what addicts do to get a fix. they rob you financially, they are incapable of doing any kind of work. they dont have any human emotions any more, all they want to do is get high. you are nothing to them other than a source of $. they will lie all the time whenever it suits them. they get into problem and that puts them in compromising situations due to the effect of drugs. that figure doesn't talk about those issues that you dont come to know unless you know some1 who has a drug problem. tobacco users on the other hand donot share any such kinds of behavior. So it is nothing compared to drug addiction.
i have told you so many facts about drug addiction, but still you dont get it and i dont expect you to because you are incapable to understand the damage it can do.
_________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:25 pm
Suislide
VGS Admin
Joined: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 509
berzerker wrote:
Suislide wrote:
berzerker wrote:
Anyway, 1 person you know, some scientific background! Many people I know use drugs all the time, no one seems to have been affected in any way. People die of use of tobacco all the time on the other hand, but of course this is completely different.
!
IMHO if you use drugs, some tobacco or drink alcohol you are just plain stupid, but I told you before and you knocked me out with the brilliant question if I was 11 years old, so I guess you are a heavy drinker, suit yourself.
Wow it's not good for you? REALLY? Wow, thanks Captain Dipshit.
I barely ever drink, but it's clear that you are a child because you clearly don't understand why people drink.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:31 pm
Suislide
VGS Admin
Joined: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 509
berzerker wrote:
craterface wrote:
it's just plain stupid to get out something like this from the stuff above. yea much more people die from tobacco because like... hell know, 1/3 of the world smokes. on the other hand much less of them use drugs.
this bullshit reminds me when they tell me that "there are much more accidents on the road then in the air, thus travelling by plane is far more safe." don't care about shit like that on the rare occasion when flying, but this is just the logic of idiots. the only thing that counts is the proportion.
If I had to make a government policy to improve the health of my population, I would tackle the largest causes of death, irrespective of the proportion. And in most countries almost everyone uses or has used drugs, if it was so dangerous and / or addictive, why are these numbers so low? It can hardly be because of the lobby of the drugs industry, can it?
Instead of arguing the point, you seem to be arguing against logic.
So you just previously provided links that show that 17,000 people die a year from drugs within the United States. Then you continue on to say that because this number isn't as high as say, car crashes, that drugs are not bad? Guess what faggot? Correlation doesn't equal causation. Drugs are obviously not good for your body as its well documented medically from alcohol, tobacco, affine, cocaine, marijuana, lsd, etc, that all of have negative effects on your body. The numbers aren't that low in the aspect based upon the total users of hard drugs. Not to mention, you fail to realize that these drugs can be indirect causes of death as well.
Also, your claim that everyone in a country uses drugs or has used drugs is absolute drivel.
Largest causes of death? So pass laws making it illegal for people to be obese and stop driving cars? Sounds like a great country.
Once your IQ reaches double digits you should only then consider replying to me.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:38 pm
_Master_
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Posts: 1711
ok i am rewinding a bit and quoting this
berzerker wrote:
You cannot prevent crimes unless maybe you are willing to live in a 1984-like state. In your reasoning why should you not kill every offender / criminal, irrespective of the nature of the crime? For if you don't they could do it again. People make mistakes, and many crimes are pretty harmless / technical.
and you can read about this at bbc
A man who tried to murder a 60-year-old woman in an Aberdeen park during an attempt to abduct and rape her two young granddaughters has been jailed.
Ryan Yates admitted stabbing the woman as the girls, aged eight and two, fled.
Yates, 30, carried out the attack last October, days after he was released for an assault with a sexual element.
He was jailed for a minimum of 10 years at the High Court in Glasgow. The judge said Yates may never be released. The victim said he was a menace to society.
so read the last line and let it sink into your head for a few seconds. This is a very clear example where criminals and wrongdoers needs to be. ie inside the jail and not outside in the society fucking you in ass as you would prefer.
i have told you so many facts about drug addiction, but still you dont get it and i dont expect you to because you are incapable to understand the damage it can do.
Your facts are anecdotal.
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:09 am
puk
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Location: Southampton, UK
Suislide wrote:
So you just previously provided links that show that 17,000 people die a year from drugs within the United States. Then you continue on to say that because this number isn't as high as say, car crashes, that drugs are not bad? Guess what faggot? Correlation doesn't equal causation. Drugs are obviously not good for your body as its well documented medically from alcohol, tobacco, affine, cocaine, marijuana, lsd, etc, that all of have negative effects on your body. The numbers aren't that low in the aspect based upon the total users of hard drugs. Not to mention, you fail to realize that these drugs can be indirect causes of death as well.
I'm gonna jump in here
The argument started when Master claimed all drug dealers should be shot. The counter argument was "Why should we not also shoot alcohol vendors and car dealerships". The logic behind this is that cars and alcohol kill far more people than drugs. You could argue that pound for pound, certain drugs --Heroin, Crack, Cocaine-- are worse than alcohol/tobacco. However, just like TV, books, food, it should be up to, first the parents, then the adult to determine what one chooses to consume.
Suislide wrote:
Largest causes of death? So pass laws making it illegal for people to be obese and stop driving cars? Sounds like a great country.
That's the argument I was making. First we establish that drugs are a problem in countries. Next we conclude that we have to deal with this problem. If obesity/driving/alcohol/tobacco is a bigger problem, then we need to deal with it even more severely.
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:11 am
berzerker
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_Master_ wrote:
again you provide some stupid link and try to fit the link based on your petty stupid immature logic. Netherlands gets its revenue from tourism, tourists who go there to do drugs and sex.
Speaking about stereotypes! Most tourists come to the Netherlands for the beach and flowers and such. BTW it is not a country for which tourism is vital, like Spain or Turkey.
The Dutch are trying hard to curb drugs tourism, most coffee shops in the border area's have been closed recently (it it had been possible to sell only to Dutch inhabitants that would have been preferrable, but that would be discriminatory (forbidden by EU law, and rightly so) so that was not possible).
_Master_ wrote:
Also who you are you tell me my experience is petty and yours is not, who the fuck are you? you know nothing about my personal difficulties i had to go thru because of a family member affected by drugs. i have repeatedly told you i have met with actual addicts in the process and psychologists in drug rehab centers who treat such cases. Their view is nothing like what you think it is. And all you have done is provided some stupid links.
It is more than you provide. If you are stupid enough to use mustard gas to get high, yeah, you will suffer. If you use heroin you know what you could get into. Marihuana is pretty harmless on the other hand, that's what these stupid links of mine also point out.
Last edited by berzerker on Sat May 01, 2010 3:42 am, edited 2 times in total
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:14 am
berzerker
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_Master_ wrote:
that shows the deaths, incidentally 17k is still quite a figure. but it doesnt tell you the whole picture what addicts do to get a fix. they rob you financially, they are incapable of doing any kind of work. they dont have any human emotions any more, all they want to do is get high. you are nothing to them other than a source of $. they will lie all the time whenever it suits them. they get into problem and that puts them in compromising situations due to the effect of drugs. that figure doesn't talk about those issues that you dont come to know unless you know some1 who has a drug problem. tobacco users on the other hand donot share any such kinds of behavior. So it is nothing compared to drug addiction.
i have told you so many facts about drug addiction, but still you dont get it and i dont expect you to because you are incapable to understand the damage it can do.
And if drugs would be freely available, would there still be such damage? It would probably be very cheap in the shops, no need to steal or lie any more.
If alcohol were illegal, you would see exactly the same situation there.
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:16 am
berzerker
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Posts: 2350
Suislide wrote:
you clearly don't understand why people drink.
I do not see any reason why anyone would resort to drinking alcohol that's correct. But of course you do, so explain it to me then. Oh, sorry, you're lazy, forget it.
Last edited by berzerker on Sat May 01, 2010 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:19 am
berzerker
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_Master_ wrote:
The victim said he was a menace to society.
This is a very clear example where criminals and wrongdoers needs to be. ie inside the jail and not outside in the society fucking you in ass as you would prefer.
Dangerous psychopaths needs to be taken out of society as long as they are dangerous, that is not in dispute, so what's your point?
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:20 am
puk
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Location: Southampton, UK
_Master_ wrote:
ok i am rewinding a bit and quoting this
berzerker wrote:
You cannot prevent crimes unless maybe you are willing to live in a 1984-like state....
so read the last line and let it sink into your head for a few seconds...
You took that out of context. Here is the full context
berzerker wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
On the other hand a drug dealer is selling coke and ruining the life of kids who in turn takes to committing other crimes. what should we do to them? let them go free? counseling? or slap a light sentence and let them back into society? what is your solution to this? give me a solution, dont give me wimpy answers that stoning/executions/lifesentence is backward.
You cannot prevent crimes unless maybe you are willing to live in a 1984-like state. In your reasoning why should you not kill every offender / criminal, irrespective of the nature of the crime? For if you don't they could do it again. People make mistakes, and many crimes are pretty harmless / technical. Drugs is a fine example, why are drugs considered evil by the legal system but not alcohol / tobacco? There is no logic in that.
You initially talked about killing dealers, not murderers and rapists, first of all. Secondly, Berzerker responded that you can not stop all crimes unless you live in a total police state. I think you got hung up on the
Berzerker wrote:
For if you don't they could do it again.
It's an imperfect system. Rapists and child molesters get released after 15-20 years and commit the same crimes. But seeing as how we can't forsee the future --Minority Report-- we can't legally hold them for longer.
Furthermore, your example is anecdotal. If you continue to provide anecdotal evidence, please change your name to Christopher Hitchens =P
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:24 am
berzerker
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Suislide wrote:
So you just previously provided links that show that 17,000 people die a year from drugs within the United States. Then you continue on to say that because this number isn't as high as say, car crashes, that drugs are not bad?
No, that was not what I was saying at all. I said that drugs should be treated equal to alcohol and tobacco. These number do not give me the immediate impression that it is necessary to fight a total war against drugs while leaving tobacco and alcohol legal.
Suislide wrote:
Largest causes of death? So pass laws making it illegal for people to be obese and stop driving cars?
There are ways between making it illegal on the one hand and leaving it completely free on the other. You can regulate markets, as happens with the car industry for example. You can educate people to change their behaviour, legalise the less harmful substances, tax dangerous products. etc etc.
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:48 am
Alez
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Suislide wrote:
Also, your claim that everyone in a country uses drugs or has used drugs is absolute drivel.
More than half in the US apparently, I'd say that's quite a lot. Numbers in the UK do not seem too different. Most marihuana by the way, so no problem there, this is harmless stuff, tobacco or vodka is probably more dangerous and certainly more addictive. What's your problem with marihuana anyway, other than that you live in a country in which it happens to be illegal (free country, WTF)?
Suislide wrote:
Largest causes of death? So pass laws making it illegal for people to be obese and stop driving cars? Sounds like a great country.
I'm not sure: what do you think is the fundamental difference with prohibiting the use of drugs? It's regulating behavior. I do not see why it would be a fundamental human right to drive a car. Typically short-sighted american thinking: their freedoms are fundamental while other countries freedoms are insignificant. Master shows the same signs. The 'not invented here' syndome I guess.
Suislide wrote:
Once your IQ reaches double digits you should only then consider replying to me.
Pure Suislidian!
What's your IQ by the way? Can't be too high I reckon.
_________________ Sigs are for n00bs!
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:25 am
berzerker
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Alez wrote:
Pure Suislidian!
Yeah, form but no substance.
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:51 pm
_Master_
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puk wrote:
Furthermore, your example is anecdotal. If you continue to provide anecdotal evidence, please change your name to Christopher Hitchens =P
yours is no less, see below. you continue to accept the established norms of the times and are happy as long as you get your fix or booze. So in a way yeah people like you are part of the problem.
puk wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
i have told you so many facts about drug addiction, but still you dont get it and i dont expect you to because you are incapable to understand the damage it can do.
Last edited by _Master_ on Sat May 01, 2010 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total _________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:51 pm
_Master_
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Joined: Jun 18, 2009
Posts: 1711
puk wrote:
You took that out of context.
no the context was apt. that was screen pollution.
puk wrote:
You initially talked about killing dealers, not murderers and rapists, first of all.
are you sure? can you provide a link to the place where it was quoted first? Anyways even if I did so what?
puk wrote:
Secondly, Berzerker responded that you can not stop all crimes unless you live in a total police state. I think you got hung up on the
Berzerker wrote:
For if you don't they could do it again.
just cause you cant stop all crimes doesn’t mean you should not take the effort to stop ‘a crime’. Its like you cannot realistically render every thing in realtime with full AA + raytracing, instead you live with approximations and that is good enough. Again you cannot get decent framerate if you use detailed tessellated models in games, because its not feasible to render them. That didn’t stop the game designers to approximate them with textures make games did it? They aimed for the sky, but settled somewhere in between and that is a good way to progress, instead of sitting idle like a faggot. I have no clue how the fuck he gets those ridiculous ideas, probably by smoking weed everyday.
puk wrote:
It's an imperfect system. Rapists and child molesters get released after 15-20 years and commit the same crimes. But seeing as how we can't forsee the future --Minority Report-- we can't legally hold them for longer.
we live in a society where time is short and we need to live a quality life. Some1 did a crime, finish him off and let the state machinery run smoothly. Whts the fucking problem? Or you could adopt a rapist if you so desire and keep it as pet home to showoff to your friends and family.
Last edited by _Master_ on Sat May 01, 2010 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total _________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:53 pm
_Master_
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Joined: Jun 18, 2009
Posts: 1711
berzerker wrote:
It is more than you provide.
Thats what you think, you provide links and interpret that data according to your ill formed beliefs. its not far from being anecdotal and its certainly not something to be taken as strong argument in your support, because you refuse to look at the repercussions and only obsessively focus on numbers. When you live in a society and interact with people (if you actually did) you dont say, "dude you rock - simply cause your alive and thats amazing!" its more like “why the fuck do you look so stupid? Are you on some drugs?”
berzerker wrote:
If you are stupid enough to use mustard gas to get high, yeah, you will suffer. If you use heroin you know what you could get into. Marihuana is pretty harmless on the other hand, that's what these stupid links of mine also point out.
quoting from links just like you love it.
"But, by the time a person is addicted to any drug, his concern is focused on his drug of choice and may not be thinking clearly—his fear may guide him to believe that other people just want to take away his drug. Or, a person may simply not understand how drug abuse treatment programs are run and may not believe that they have other methods to help abusers wean themselves from their addictions.
Drug addiction is a very serious condition, and it can affect anyone. Drug detox programs can help, but only if the addict will agree to give them a chance."
So it can affect any one and does not have a particular soco-economic class or race preference . And those who are affected by it donot know about as in yours and puks case and live happily like zombies, till they die of cancer, heart attacks, liver failure…etc. Oh gee how did this happen? duh must be the water or something. I knew drinking water was bad.
berzerker wrote:
And if drugs would be freely available, would there still be such damage? It would probably be very cheap in the shops, no need to steal or lie any more.
In that case it should be regulated and purchased from a shop like alcohol where you need to show your id. It would probably be good, as that would remove a sizeable chunk of peddlers from the chain. It still makes it illegal for peddlers to sell drugs. Being an adult yes you are responsible and buy it from any store like jewel osco or wallgreens. But as a teenager you are extremely vulnerable and naive. you have no business to be around those drugs. By awarding brutal punishments to peddlers it would crub the tendency to look for peddling as a source of income. In either case legalized or not the common denominator that harsh punishments be awarded to peddlers still remains constant. The only change is it makes it easier for adults with ids to procure them.
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