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VideoGamesSuck.com :: View topic - ISLAM & JUDAISM
ok fine, but then why are people are whipped and stoned in islamic nations today? hardly any large scale world wars happening id say. it is simply because such nations are primitive and donot not want to advance technologically.
You're bang on. They DO NOT want to advance technologically. When the ayetollah took over the first thing he did was to start reversing the advances the Shah had made. The reason is instability. The Shah's attempts to industrialize his country were too hasty. It would lead to black outs and such. Also he was extremely brutal. His overthrow lead to the brutal regime in place now. No one likes the regime, but people are too scared to do anything about it.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:19 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
"yeah like in iran, pakistan, egypt, saudi arabia, yemen, uae, quatar"
-Literally none of those countries you cited have anything in common.
are you sure?
They are not constrained to any one continent, don't speak the same language, don't share a common ancestry, most hate eachother. A lot of them are allied with the US as well.
they are all islamic nations.
LOL. I just can't take that seriously. I'm sorry
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:22 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
why are people are whipped and stoned in islamic nations today? hardly any large scale world wars happening id say. it is simply because such nations are primitive and donot not want to advance technologically.
It's a means of punishment for them, not a means of mass murder so it does not need wars. If you are trying to say that capital punishment in itself is a sign that it is a backward country, then I agree BTW.
It's b/c the people that run the country are fundamentalists and the idiots use religious laws (oxymoron?). Like I said, ppl are too scared to stand up. These countries are not stable either. There is a lot of talk about how if America invades Iran, it could dissolve into a state like Afghanistan. That's the funny thing about countries: they don't recover overnight.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:40 am
_Master_
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berzerker wrote:
It's a means of punishment for them, not a means of mass murder so it does not need wars.
wtf? so its ok to stone and bleed to death and whipped, but not mass murder simply because of numbers. what you are saying is, its ok that your teenage daughter got whipped because other teenage daughters didnt? that is the most senseless logic i have ever heard. seriously you need to come out of the box and think, reading history books dont make you a smart person.
berzerker wrote:
If you are trying to say that capital punishment in itself is a sign that it is a backward country, then I agree BTW.
no i said nothing of that sort. that is your underdeveloped view because you live a nursery school life. perhaps when it is your close ones that get raped or murdered by a psyco, then perhaps it may hit you hard that capital punishment seems a possible solution.
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:07 am
_Master_
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puk wrote:
I think its partly b/c the middle east is playing catch up, and partly b/c the middle east doesn't want capitalism.
no it has nothing to do with that, i feel what ever way you progress socialism/captalism if you keep pushing you are bound to improve your self. but it seems there are some counter variables that prevent it from taking off. and it case of islamic states it is the radical belief and climate.
puk wrote:
Also bear in mind that the orient has always been behind the west, dating all the way back to Rome and Persia.
i disagree, because history has always been written in favor of more dominant nations. history is subjective. That is why i find historical facts very speculative and a little more formal than fairy tales. i rather tend to see on the outcome of the cause, rather than believe some prejudiced historian tell me stories. If you goto China/India these nations where more developed that the west in certain pockets of time. But what really played against them is again nature
puk wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
it had to do with nature ( yeah i know what you are thinking, will explain this later)
I'm interested, go on.
According to me it has to do with the geographical location interfering with human life. In cold regions, you need to keep yourself warm to survive otherwise you perish. So you had to be more active and build stocks to last thru winter. This made such people to think out of the box and lead to the inventive streak. So such nations are more machine/gadget oriented.
For warmer regions there is no danger of extinction as you donot die in the heat unless you are in a desert. So your food supplies are abundant and you can take it easy lead a relaxed life. Probably most of the time was spent under a tree, eating fruits and sleeping in the shade. in fact this also made them vegetarian. But life was not so kind for people from cold regions, in fact it was brutal. so you had no vegetation's and had to hunt animals to survive. if you didnt do that and relied on fruits you simply wouldn't survive in human form. eg remember the incident where the plane crashed on a mountain and the survivors had to eat the dead passengers to keep themselves alive?
So it made people from the cold regions more aggressive and brutal compared to the humans from the south who where easy going and leading a relaxed life. They new the game to survive. Now You mix em both and you have one group dominating over the other, and its pretty obviously who would be ruling over whom => enter colonialism. the world wars are just level 2, when you get over ambitious and try to take over one another in the sprit of sport of survival.today you see the same in sports, an expression of the former.
even today most of us are like that, we havent really progressed much from the cave man survival sprint. plus you also have the ignorance of the brain to make things worst. If we need to evolve we need to be more scientific in our daily life. So i welcome all scientific/technological developments that are sensible. Illogical senseless reasoning must be swiftly exterminated. ( this word triggers alarm bells in bezerkers mind !! exterminated = WWII = jews = BAD BAD = DANGER )
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:30 am
berzerker
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_Master_ wrote:
berzerker wrote:
It's a means of punishment for them, not a means of mass murder so it does not need wars.
wtf? so its ok to stone and bleed to death and whipped, but not mass murder simply because of numbers
Mass murder / genocide is a crime against humanity, simple murder isn't, let alone executions in line with the local legal system. You do not have to condone the lesser crime to see that the higher crime is a higher crime.
_Master_ wrote:
perhaps when it is your close ones that get raped or murdered by a psyco, then perhaps it may hit you hard that capital punishment seems a possible solution.
Stoning is also a possible solution but a backward solution, like capital punishment, so what's your point?
Last edited by berzerker on Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:32 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
berzerker wrote:
It's a means of punishment for them, not a means of mass murder so it does not need wars.
wtf? so its ok to stone and bleed to death and whipped, but not mass murder simply because of numbers...
I think what he was saying was that world wars lead to mass executions. However, small scale executions can occur. One such case, as you two pointed out, is punishment in the form of stoning.
_Master_ wrote:
berzerker wrote:
If you are trying to say that capital punishment in itself is a sign that it is a backward country, then I agree BTW.
...capital punishment seems a possible solution.
You keep hitting heavy issues. Capital punishment is very controversial. I don't even know where I stand wrt it. On the one hand I don't approve of a state being given the right to murder. On the other hand, I figure if you are going to take a man's time by throwing him in jail, taking away his life isn't much of a stretch
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:44 am
_Master_
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berzerker wrote:
Mass murder / genocide is a crime against humanity, simple murder isn't,
who said so? some history book? in both cases crime is committed against humanity. one is singular other is plural, but crime is crime, numbers don't mean anything. if we go by numbers alone then genocide is NOT crime against humanity at all because our earth is pretty insignificant in the cosmic canvas. So it is a ridiculous percentage, so insignificant that it would not be called a crime at all by your definition even if a million-million earths where destroyed in genocide. No matter what, a crime is crime in my book.
berzerker wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
perhaps when it is your close ones that get raped or murdered by a psyco, then perhaps it may hit you hard that capital punishment seems a possible solution.
Stoning is also a possible solution but a backward solution, so what's your point?
i find it rather strange you want criminals to be left free in the world. i dont know what your idea is. mine is certainly painful punishment for such people. if its is stoning to death for rape, murder, drugs it is totally cool or some kind of brutal but horrific manner is good. and such methods should be broadcasted publically to deter such horrific potential crimes from hapenning against individuals.
Last edited by _Master_ on Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total _________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:49 am
_Master_
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puk wrote:
You keep hitting heavy issues. Capital punishment is very controversial.
i dont care what a bunch of nannies think, people who hurt others by horrific crimes have no place in society.
puk wrote:
I don't even know where I stand wrt it. On the one hand I don't approve of a state being given the right to murder.
but the individual also had no business to commit a crime against an individual. the crime has been committed and so swift brutal measures at an equal magnitude must be quickly delivered. china is way ahead in this.
puk wrote:
On the other hand, I figure if you are going to take a man's time by throwing him in jail, taking away his life isn't much of a stretch
allright fuck it, silence him, save the infrastructure. let it take a new life and learn again.
Last edited by _Master_ on Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total _________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:50 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
...i feel what ever way you progress socialism/captalism if you keep pushing you are bound to improve your self. but it seems there are some counter variables that prevent it from taking off. and it case of islamic states it is the radical belief and climate.
That's not always true. There is the issue of perpetual debt (ie. with some African nations). If the interest on your debt is greater than the rate of GDP growth, you will NEVER get better. But lets take a few examples from the middle east
-Iran is being strangled by the Clinton imposed embargo as well as a crumbling economy and severe inflation.
-Iraq has been blasted back to the stone age. Before that, they had a despotic ruler, before that they had Syrian Ba'ath party which overthrew the military dictatorship, before that the military overthrew the king, before that, England would, in the words of Churchill, bomb/gas 'the recalcitrant Arabs'
-Afghanistan was invaded by the USSR then America
-Saudi Arabia is ruled by corrupt princes
-Egypt is virtually a military dictatorship
-Pakistan has no central leadership
What you should be asking is how these countries have managed to make it this far.
And also, this has nothing to do with religion. In South America, almost the exact same thing has happened, but there they are catholic.
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
Also bear in mind that the orient has always been behind the west, dating all the way back to Rome and Persia.
i disagree. If you goto China/India these nations where more developed that the west in certain pockets of time.
I'm not familiar with Chinese/Indian history. I was referring to Persia. That's what I meant by the Orient.
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
it had to do with nature ( yeah i know what you are thinking, will explain this later)
I'm interested, go on.
According to me it has to do with the geographical location interfering with human life. In cold regions, you need to keep yourself warm to survive otherwise you perish. So you had to be more active and build stocks to last thru winter. This made such people to think out of the box and lead to the inventive streak. So such nations are more machine/gadget oriented.
For warmer regions there is no danger of extinction as you donot die in the heat unless you are in a desert. So your food supplies are abundant and you can take it easy lead a relaxed life. Probably most of the time was spent under a tree, eating fruits and sleeping in the shade. in fact this also made them vegetarian. But life was not so kind for people from cold regions, in fact it was brutal. so you had no vegetation's and had to hunt animals to survive. if you didnt do that and relied on fruits you simply wouldn't survive in human form. eg remember the incident where the plane crashed on a mountain and the survivors had to eat the dead passengers to keep themselves alive?
So it made people from the cold regions more aggressive and brutal compared to the humans from the south who where easy going and leading a relaxed life. They new the game to survive. Now You mix em both and you have one group dominating over the other, and its pretty obviously who would be ruling over whom => enter colonialism. the world wars are just level 2, when you get over ambitious and try to take over one another in the sprit of sport of survival.today you see the same in sports, an expression of the former.
even today most of us are like that, we havent really progressed much from the cave man survival sprint. plus you also have the ignorance of the brain to make things worst. If we need to evolve we need to be more scientific in our daily life. So i welcome all scientific/technological developments that are sensible. Illogical senseless reasoning must be swiftly exterminated. ( this word triggers alarm bells in bezerkers mind !! exterminated = WWII = jews = BAD BAD = DANGER )
Interesting theory. How do you explain for the fact that civilization started in Mesopotamia, and that for over a thousand years Rome, a warm climate, was the center of Europe. Furthermore, Germanica, a place that was extremely cold at the time, didn't even have cities when Rome had established itself as an empire? What about the native Indians of Canada? How come they were more underdeveloped than the Aztecs?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:53 am
berzerker
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_Master_ wrote:
berzerker wrote:
Mass murder / genocide is a crime against humanity, simple murder isn't,
if its is stoning to death for rape, murder, drugs it is totally cool or some kind of brutal but horrific manner is good. and such methods should be broadcasted publically to deter such horrific potential crimes from hapenning against individuals.
Then why do you find muslims backward if they do this? Apparently you are no less backward.
Last edited by berzerker on Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:55 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
one is singular other is plural, but crime is crime, numbers don't mean anything.
Crimes against humanity are viewed in the eyes of, initially the Geneva conventions, then the UN charter, as being especially egregious. The constitute a threat to the survival to the human race. That is why the UN considers aggression to be the supreme war crime. Simply put, aggression can wipe out the human race, but manslaughter can't.
_Master_ wrote:
if its is stoning to death for rape, murder, drugs it is totally cool or some kind of brutal but horrific manner is good. and such methods should be broadcasted publically to deter such horrific potential crimes from hapenning against individuals.
They are very savage though. I'd like to think we are better than that.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:57 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
if its is stoning to death for rape, murder, drugs it is totally cool or some kind of brutal but horrific manner is good. and such methods should be broadcasted publically to deter such horrific potential crimes from hapenning against individuals.
Then why do you find muslims backward if they do this?
I was actually wondering the same thing.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:57 am
_Master_
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puk wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
...i feel what ever way you progress socialism/captalism if you keep pushing you are bound to improve your self. but it seems there are some counter variables that prevent it from taking off. and it case of islamic states it is the radical belief and climate.
That's not always true. There is the issue of perpetual debt
-Afghanistan was invaded by the USSR then America
-Saudi Arabia is ruled by corrupt princes
-Egypt is virtually a military dictatorship
-Pakistan has no central leadership
these are exactly the counter variables i am talking abt.
puk wrote:
And also, this has nothing to do with religion. In South America, almost the exact same thing has happened, but there they are catholic.
what thing?
puk wrote:
I'm not familiar with Chinese/Indian history. I was referring to Persia. That's what I meant by the Orient.
oriental is typically used to describe cultures of far east and not middle east.
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:58 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
people who hurt others by horrific crimes have no place in society.
But couldn't that same argument be used against a state which hurts others by horrific crimes?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:04 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
And also, this has nothing to do with religion. In South America, almost the exact same thing has happened, but there they are catholic.
what thing?
South America was, as a result of imperialism, left in the hands of the aristocracy. Unlike in the middle east, there was no middle class. The aristocracy imported all their goods from europe, so there was no demand for locally manufactured, poorly made, products. The peasants stayed poor, and the same equality which came with the formation of the middle class did not come to the south americans (not for a while anyways). The military grew tired of the aristocracy and overthrew them. That's what led to these heavy dictatorships in south america. That's what I was trying to point out. In both South America and the middle east you had these military dictatorships being formed which lead to campaigns of terror, and the society suffers. My point was that this is not restricted to islamic countries.
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
I'm not familiar with Chinese/Indian history. I was referring to Persia. That's what I meant by the Orient.
oriental is typically used to describe cultures of far east and not middle east.
The word has many meanings I will admit that. Orientalism is generally the study of how the middle east gets slammed. Oriental cuisine, on the other hand, is like Chinese food (and stuff). Oriental influence in the Roman empire refers to the Eastern Roman empire.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:06 am
_Master_
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puk wrote:
Interesting theory. How do you explain for the fact that civilization started in Mesopotamia, and that for over a thousand years Rome,
civilization may have, may not have started in Mesopotamia who knows. thats not the point. the point those races who developed an inventive streak in them in order to survive harsh nature eventually became dominant. The timeline of rome etc you talk about comes much later, when the experiences of the past where already present in the collective human consciousness of a particular race. So they already had that advantage in their race gene pool.
puk wrote:
What about the native Indians of Canada? How come they were more underdeveloped than the Aztecs?
the Aztecs was eventually defeated by Spanish invaders who had horses and guns, which they inturn got from europe. (?)
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:11 am
berzerker
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_Master_ wrote:
The timeline of rome etc you talk about comes much later, when the experiences of the past where already present in the collective human consciousness of a particular race. So they already had that advantage in their race gene pool.
It didn't seem to have helped them much after the fall of the Roman Empire. The Spanish built a vast empire, then the French and English, Italy never achieved anything any more. So far for the gene theory I'd say. And if the English had better genes, then why didn't they use them before? BTW how come the Eskimos and Siberians do not rule the world? You would expect them to in your theories.
i knew you to quote something flimsy like that. these international laws are crafted and suit the fashion of those times in which they where drafted to prevent temporary headaches that may occur again for their selfish movtives. in another time and place these laws would become different. these laws are nascent and need to be revised. why do you take these laws as truth? you should question them instead of taking them at face value.
_Master_ wrote:
if its is stoning to death for rape, murder, drugs it is totally cool or some kind of brutal but horrific manner is good. and such methods should be broadcasted publically to deter such horrific potential crimes from hapenning against individuals.
berzerker wrote:
Then why do you find muslims backward if they do this? Apparently you are no less backward.
you are very quick to labelize without considering all facts. You should instead ask what is the motive on which it is done? It is simply backward cause in those islamic countries it is done based on a fairy tale book called quran. It is not based on logic or thinking about the efficiency how to live in a advanced society. Eg a woman reveals a bit of flesh and she is wipped because in the quran it is said so. where is the logic in this? On the other hand a drug dealer is selling coke and ruining the life of kids who in turn takes to committing other crimes. what should we do to them? let them go free? counseling? or slap a light sentence and let them back into society? what is your solution to this? give me a solution, dont give me wimpy answers that stoning/executions/lifesentence is backward.
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:24 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
What about the native Indians of Canada? How come they were more underdeveloped than the Aztecs?
the Aztecs was eventually defeated by Spanish invaders who had horses and guns, which they inturn got from europe. (?)
Ya but spain is a warm climate. They were once conquered by the Romans, also a warm climate, they in turn were in the shadow of Carthage, warm climate.
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!! exterminated = WWII = jews = BAD BAD = DANGER )