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VideoGamesSuck.com :: View topic - ISLAM & JUDAISM
Yemen is a tribal state with pretty weak central government, kinda like Afghanistan really.
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:14 pm
Dr_Shrink
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_Master_ wrote:
berzerker wrote:
I would gladly go on vacation to Iran, must be a beautiful country, I think I'd like that much more than Pakistan (or India or China for that matter).
good please let us know about your experience when you get back.
I just came back from Iran for a holiday and was impressed. Nice people, nice country, bad leadership, much like the US actually.
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:49 pm
_Master_
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good, then you should consider migrating over there. btw they probably dont give access to vgs.
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:54 pm
_Master_
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puk wrote:
I've lived in the middle east, and I've traveled to the middle east a lot, and the people are not 'crazy'. There are fanatics who believe every word in the koran, but it's the same in america with the bible. And they are a minority. You seem to be under the impression that all middle easterners are like how CNN depicts Al Queda. The just want to live in peace and raise their family.
i donot like religions like islam who by principle have rules favorable for men over women. it is not a sign of a balanced religion that a being would favor man over women. or fables like when you die in jihad you goto heaven and meet 12 celestial virgins. that is just plain stupid.
puk wrote:
"yeah like in iran, pakistan, egypt, saudi arabia, yemen, uae, quatar"
-Literally none of those countries you cited have anything in common. Iran was a US puppet, which overthrew the only democracy it could of had, and it ended up in theocracy. Now that the shit has hit the fan, America conveniently forgets operation Ajax. Pakistan is an extremely unstable country, carved out by England to promote instability between India and its neighboring regions, and which is ruled by the military, the intelligence community (ISI), both of which are staunchly fundamentalist. Egypt was a thorn in Israel's backside, and almost wiped it out of existence, so America now gives it shitloads of money to remain a military dictatorship so long as it doesn't threaten Israel (Camp David accords). Saudi Arabia is a country run by extremely corrupt princes who appease the fundamentalists to ensure they stay in power. UAE and quatar are rich tax havens. They play an extremely marginal role in international affairs. Yemen I know nothing about.
maybe so....but Germany was ruled by nazis. but today it is a very technologically sophisticated country. how come they are where they are and the other countries which where better off are not? The German mind is very logical and precise.
Last edited by _Master_ on Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total _________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:06 pm
00_Mandrake_00
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Dr_Shrink wrote:
I just came back from Iran for a holiday and was impressed. Nice people, nice country, bad leadership, much like the US actually.
me too i had a magic show there recently. i donated some xmas presents last year at the mosque
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:26 pm
_Master_
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puk wrote:
"yeah like in iran, pakistan, egypt, saudi arabia, yemen, uae, quatar"
-Literally none of those countries you cited have anything in common.
are you sure?
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:36 am
puk
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Dr_Shrink wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
berzerker wrote:
I would gladly go on vacation to Iran, must be a beautiful country, I think I'd like that much more than Pakistan (or India or China for that matter).
good please let us know about your experience when you get back.
I just came back from Iran for a holiday and was impressed. Nice people, nice country, bad leadership, much like the US actually.
LOL
Really? What's it like? What about women's rights, are they as bad as in Saudi Arabia/Afghanistan? How did you like the food?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:42 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
i donot like religions like islam who by principle have rules favorable for men over women.
I'm not an expert on religion, but I imagine all religions have rules favorable to men over women. Under christian law --no longer adhered to-- a woman gives consent to a man upon marrying him, so the man technically can never rape her. And christian fundamentalists, like Anne Coulter, Pat Robertson and the late reverend Falwell, support 'traditional families' which means the wife stays home. I imagine it's the same in Judaism, Indians I've heard are the same. Even Japanese men look down on their women.
This is not to say Islam is a perfect religion. Especially how it has been interpreted. I'm just saying that you should put things in perspective.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:52 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
"yeah like in iran, pakistan, egypt, saudi arabia, yemen, uae, quatar"
-Literally none of those countries you cited have anything in common. Iran was a US puppet, which overthrew the only democracy it could of had, and it ended up in theocracy. Now that the shit has hit the fan, America conveniently forgets operation Ajax. Pakistan is an extremely unstable country, carved out by England to promote instability between India and its neighboring regions, and which is ruled by the military, the intelligence community (ISI), both of which are staunchly fundamentalist. Egypt was a thorn in Israel's backside, and almost wiped it out of existence, so America now gives it shitloads of money to remain a military dictatorship so long as it doesn't threaten Israel (Camp David accords). Saudi Arabia is a country run by extremely corrupt princes who appease the fundamentalists to ensure they stay in power. UAE and quatar are rich tax havens. They play an extremely marginal role in international affairs. Yemen I know nothing about.
maybe so....but Germany was ruled by nazis. but today it is a very technologically sophisticated country. how come they are where they are and the other countries which where better off are not? The German mind is very logical and precise.
-Germany was always the most technicalogically advanced European country, since, lets say the 1850's. That's, partly, why England and France went to war with them in WWI. It is, however, the main reason France choose to take a back seat to Germany when they created the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) essentially choosing to be Germany's smaller partner rather than it's enemy. Furthermore, Germany was never destroyed in WWII the same way Vietnam was destroyed in the 60's by America through extensive bombing, or how Iraq has been destroyed now by a failed war (Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988), a catastrophic invasions (Gulf War 1991), embargos (1991-2003) and operation Iraqi freedom (2003-present). How Germany got sucked into Nazism is something that I don't fully understand.
Another reason why the middle east lags behind other countries is b/c it is trying to play catch up. As I pointed out in another post (Berzerker, would you kindly provide the link), modern nation-states are a western creation born out of a failure of a christian-state (which ironically is what muslims want, a muslim-state) and mutual hatred on the part of France and England. France and England, through their superior technology, and sheer ruthlessness started exporting the modern nation state to their colonies.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:56 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
"yeah like in iran, pakistan, egypt, saudi arabia, yemen, uae, quatar"
-Literally none of those countries you cited have anything in common.
are you sure?
They are not constrained to any one continent, don't speak the same language, don't share a common ancestry, most hate eachother. A lot of them are allied with the US as well.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:20 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
Germany was always the most technicalogically advanced European country, since, lets say the 1850's. That's, partly, why England and France went to war with them in WWI.
For England that's true, Germany has overtaken England as the main European power and could threathen England's world domination (that England still possessed thanks to it colonies and naval superiority). France went to war for recovering the territory lost in 1871 however, it could not hope to match Germany economically.
The fact that Germany, with only very weak allies (Austria-Hungary and Turkey), could hold out so long against the combined forces of France, England and Russia proves how powerful Germany had become. Only when the US entered the war, with millions of fresh soldiers, wheere Germany had no fresh troops left, Germany collapsed.
puk wrote:
How Germany got sucked into Nazism is something that I don't fully understand.
Make life miserable and take away hope for the future (i.e. the consequences of the Versailles treaty) and radicals are likely to become quite attractive to many. What is there to lose anyway? And the democracy was still young, maybe the electorate wasn't ready to take the responsibility that came with it (much like the electorate in California nowadays BTW but that's another story).
Also it was apparently a sign of the times, given there were fascist regimes in Spain and Italy too.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:32 am
Alez
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puk wrote:
Dr_Shrink wrote:
I just came back from Iran for a holiday and was impressed. Nice people, nice country, bad leadership, much like the US actually.
LOL
Really? What's it like? What about women's rights, are they as bad as in Saudi Arabia/Afghanistan? How did you like the food?
You make it sound like you do not believe him! It is Dr Shrink you are talking to for crying out loud!
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:11 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
puk wrote:
Germany was always the most technicalogically advanced European country, since, lets say the 1850's. That's, partly, why England and France went to war with them in WWI.
For England that's true, Germany has overtaken England as the main European power and could threathen England's world domination (that England still possessed thanks to it colonies and naval superiority). France went to war for recovering the territory lost in 1871 however, it could not hope to match Germany economically.
The fact that Germany, with only very weak allies (Austria-Hungary and Turkey), could hold out so long against the combined forces of France, England and Russia proves how powerful Germany had become. Only when the US entered the war, with millions of fresh soldiers, wheere Germany had no fresh troops left, Germany collapsed.
It's amazing how in both world wars Germany fought so many countries simultaneously.
berzerker wrote:
puk wrote:
How Germany got sucked into Nazism is something that I don't fully understand.
Make life miserable and take away hope for the future (i.e. the consequences of the Versailles treaty) and radicals are likely to become quite attractive to many. What is there to lose anyway? And the democracy was still young, maybe the electorate wasn't ready to take the responsibility that came with it (much like the electorate in California nowadays BTW but that's another story).
Also it was apparently a sign of the times, given there were fascist regimes in Spain and Italy too.
I know the history behind it, I just don't understand how it got so out of control. It was the worst case of systematic genocide ever.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:22 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
I know the history behind it, I just don't understand how it got so out of control. It was the worst case of systematic genocide ever.
For the first time the technical (industrial) means were there, the nation had recently had an event which crushed moral inhibitions (a world war with unprecedented carnage, many people were used to maiming / mutilating / slaughtering) and there came a party that presented a scapegoat. Given the right circumstances people can do things they never imagined possible, Dr Shrink may be able to provide scientific backing.
How could the situation in Rwanda get so out of hand 40 year later? And with the Armenians 25 years earlier?
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:55 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
puk wrote:
I know the history behind it, I just don't understand how it got so out of control. It was the worst case of systematic genocide ever.
For the first time the technical (industrial) means were there, the nation had recently had an event which crushed moral inhibitions (a world war with unprecedented carnage, many people were used to maiming / mutilating / slaughtering) and there came a party that presented a scapegoat. Given the right circumstances people can do things they never imagined possible, Dr Shrink may be able to provide scientific backing.
How could the situation in Rwanda get so out of hand 40 year later? And with the Armenians 25 years earlier?
It seems in Rawanda, and to a lesser degree the Ottaman empire, it was more chaotic. In Germany, it was systematic. That's what I find scary.
I have studied it, and I know its roots are in the Treaty of Versaille, and eugenics, but I still can't relate to it. In Iran when they started rounding people up and executing them in 79 onwards, there was a sense of fear. People were afraid to do anything about. What Germany did was during a phase of prosperity (compared to the years before)
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:01 am
_Master_
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puk wrote:
Germany was always the most technicalogically advanced European country
technicalogically ?? techno + calogically ?
puk wrote:
, since, lets say the 1850's. That's, partly, why England and France went to war with them in WWI. It is, however, the main reason France choose to take a back seat to Germany when they created the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC)
essentially choosing to be Germany's smaller partner rather than it's enemy.....
ok now that going into a history class, which is something bezerker would find delightful
puk wrote:
Furthermore, Germany was never destroyed in WWII the same way Vietnam was destroyed in the 60's by America through extensive bombing, or how Iraq has been destroyed now by a failed war
ok but in comparison islamic states could have improved themselves technologically meanwhile.
puk wrote:
modern nation-states are a western creation born out of a failure of a christian-state (which ironically is what muslims want, a muslim-state)
not really its more complex than that. it had to do with nature ( yeah i know what you are thinking, will explain this later)
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:07 am
_Master_
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berzerker wrote:
For the first time the technical (industrial) means were there, the nation had recently had an event which crushed moral inhibitions (a world war with unprecedented carnage, many people were used to maiming / mutilating / slaughtering) and there came a party that presented a scapegoat. Given the right circumstances people can do things they never imagined possible,
ok fine, but then why are people are whipped and stoned in islamic nations today? hardly any large scale world wars happening id say. it is simply because such nations are primitive and donot not want to advance technologically.
berzerker wrote:
Dr Shrink may be able to provide * scientific backing.
you missed *"anything but a"
Last edited by _Master_ on Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total _________________ follow me or get out of the way
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:08 am
_Master_
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puk wrote:
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
"yeah like in iran, pakistan, egypt, saudi arabia, yemen, uae, quatar"
-Literally none of those countries you cited have anything in common.
are you sure?
They are not constrained to any one continent, don't speak the same language, don't share a common ancestry, most hate eachother. A lot of them are allied with the US as well.
they are all islamic nations.
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:13 am
puk
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_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
Germany was always the most technicalogically advanced European country
technicalogically ?? techno + calogically ?
I'm dyslx, dylecx, dyslexc...I can't spell
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
Furthermore, Germany was never destroyed in WWII the same way Vietnam was destroyed in the 60's by America through extensive bombing, or how Iraq has been destroyed now by a failed war
ok but in comparison islamic states could have improved themselves technologically meanwhile.
You've touched on a very large issue. Why developing nations can't develop. I know in Africa this is directly related to the Colonialism, then imperialism, and finally the slave trade. Imperialism would shift the nation from progress to manufacturing. The slave trade essentially wiped out a large portion of the working class. North African and Middle eastern countries fared better b/c they had a little more unity so they could better stand up to the imperialist. However, I suspect this had an affect on their futures. So in Syria, France took a substantial part of the coast line and made Lebenon, and turned it into a middle class country which would drift towards Europe. Britain did the same with Kuwait, even more so when one considers that it has almost all the coast line of Iraq. Iran I mentioned with Operation Ajax. But at the end of the day, I think its partly b/c the middle east is playing catch up, and partly b/c the middle east doesn't want capitalism. So you get the mailed fist. This causes even more problems. Also bear in mind that the orient has always been behind the west, dating all the way back to Rome and Persia.
_Master_ wrote:
puk wrote:
modern nation-states are a western creation born out of a failure of a christian-state (which ironically is what muslims want, a muslim-state)
not really its more complex than that. it had to do with nature ( yeah i know what you are thinking, will explain this later)
I'm interested, go on.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:14 am
berzerker
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_Master_ wrote:
why are people are whipped and stoned in islamic nations today? hardly any large scale world wars happening id say. it is simply because such nations are primitive and donot not want to advance technologically.
It's a means of punishment for them, not a means of mass murder so it does not need wars. If you are trying to say that capital punishment in itself is a sign that it is a backward country, then I agree BTW.
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